1
00:00:10,759 --> 00:00:02,480
you're locked into inception radio

2
00:00:14,209 --> 00:00:10,769
network superior Wisconsin your tool in

3
00:00:18,170 --> 00:00:14,219
tonight vision radio exposing the truth

4
00:00:20,570 --> 00:00:18,180
one secret at a time repair yourself as

5
00:00:23,230 --> 00:00:20,580
we explore the shadow worlds of

6
00:00:26,599 --> 00:00:23,240
suppressed history secret knowledge

7
00:00:48,970 --> 00:00:26,609
forbidden religion and shine a light on

8
00:00:48,980 --> 00:01:10,670
what up

9
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,600
welcome to night vision radio

10
00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:18,460
hey everyone thanks so much for joining

11
00:01:25,210 --> 00:01:20,750
us again this week on night vision radio

12
00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:25,220
I've got a great show coming up and just

13
00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:28,100
do a few housekeeping items up front as

14
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:30,680
we usually do hope that you'll come and

15
00:01:35,590 --> 00:01:33,650
visit me on facebook i post a you know

16
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:35,600
information about upcoming gas in

17
00:01:40,210 --> 00:01:37,930
current guests and past guests on my

18
00:01:42,460 --> 00:01:40,220
facebook page and also on the night

19
00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:42,470
vision radio facebook page if you don't

20
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:44,180
mind go over there and click like on

21
00:01:50,890 --> 00:01:47,290
that page that can help us out a lot and

22
00:01:54,070 --> 00:01:50,900
also any of you who are interested or

23
00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:54,080
may be interested in getting information

24
00:01:59,350 --> 00:01:57,110
about france about southwest France and

25
00:02:02,530 --> 00:01:59,360
heading over there with me to hang out

26
00:02:04,630 --> 00:02:02,540
with Henry Lincoln author or Holy Blood

27
00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:04,640
Holy Grail or co-author I should say and

28
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:07,510
the holy place in p2 the sacred pattern

29
00:02:13,060 --> 00:02:10,250
and many others over there mr. Jim

30
00:02:16,930 --> 00:02:13,070
Wallis Murphy who's also a best-selling

31
00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:16,940
author in that genre of material so just

32
00:02:22,090 --> 00:02:19,040
let me know send me a Facebook message

33
00:02:23,590 --> 00:02:22,100
or friend me on Facebook and I'll be

34
00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:23,600
happy to talk with you about it we're

35
00:02:28,330 --> 00:02:25,670
trying to you know keep the number

36
00:02:30,490 --> 00:02:28,340
reasonable so that we can you know all

37
00:02:33,010 --> 00:02:30,500
have a good visit and be able to spend

38
00:02:35,260 --> 00:02:33,020
quality time with the speakers that are

39
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:35,270
going to be joining us over there so let

40
00:02:40,930 --> 00:02:38,330
me know anyhow tonight boy we're going

41
00:02:42,310 --> 00:02:40,940
to go back in time we're going to go

42
00:02:44,259 --> 00:02:42,320
back to the summer of nineteen

43
00:02:46,780 --> 00:02:44,269
sixty-nine I know some of you probably

44
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:46,790
weren't even around then well I was you

45
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:49,370
know I guess I'm giving away my age

46
00:02:55,930 --> 00:02:51,050
again I seem to do that every single

47
00:02:57,970 --> 00:02:55,940
week but I was a teenager in 1969 I

48
00:03:00,670 --> 00:02:57,980
wasn't living in Los Angeles at that

49
00:03:03,490 --> 00:03:00,680
time I was still in my home state of

50
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:03,500
Oklahoma living in tulsa and I remember

51
00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:08,330
hearing the news about this crazy murder

52
00:03:14,290 --> 00:03:11,720
that had taken place or crazy murders i

53
00:03:16,690 --> 00:03:14,300
should say i'm talking about what's you

54
00:03:19,390 --> 00:03:16,700
know commonly known now as the Manson

55
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:19,400
murders and my guest tonight is a

56
00:03:27,309 --> 00:03:22,970
historian he's a great journalist and an

57
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:27,319
author and he's done beaucoup research

58
00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:28,490
into

59
00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:31,430
Charles Manson and the Manson Family and

60
00:03:35,710 --> 00:03:33,650
he sort of come at it from a little bit

61
00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:35,720
of a different angle than some of the

62
00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:36,980
stuff you might have heard otherwise

63
00:03:43,030 --> 00:03:40,060
he's written a book about that he's also

64
00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:43,040
written about Manson's sort of occult

65
00:03:48,370 --> 00:03:45,470
and black magic connections which is

66
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:48,380
going to take us right in to the next

67
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:51,170
segment in the next half hour where

68
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:53,330
we're going to be looking at Adams new

69
00:04:01,750 --> 00:03:56,450
research in its new book on dis corey

70
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:01,760
anism and the historian discordia it's

71
00:04:05,230 --> 00:04:03,770
his its latest book and he's going to

72
00:04:06,850 --> 00:04:05,240
explain all about what that isn't how

73
00:04:10,060 --> 00:04:06,860
that actually kind of ties into the

74
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:10,070
Manson thing so welcome Adam thanks so

75
00:04:14,860 --> 00:04:12,650
much for joining me I think surrounding

76
00:04:17,110 --> 00:04:14,870
me on her neck yeah I appreciate it and

77
00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:17,120
I want to thank towel for putting us

78
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:21,290
together he's a good buddy and a great

79
00:04:28,180 --> 00:04:24,890
source always so thank you to all we

80
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:28,190
appreciate it ennio somebody just put

81
00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:30,650
Renee is 29 on the on the chat room

82
00:04:35,740 --> 00:04:33,440
that's so kind I'll pay you later mark

83
00:04:41,050 --> 00:04:35,750
don't worry about it oh you big time

84
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:41,060
anyhow Adam so how was it that you got

85
00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:45,040
lured into the the Manson Family story

86
00:04:51,250 --> 00:04:48,260
cuz you're you're were you even born at

87
00:04:56,020 --> 00:04:51,260
that time oh yeah yeah i was born in

88
00:04:58,810 --> 00:04:56,030
nineteen sixty oh why so what did you

89
00:05:01,300 --> 00:04:58,820
when you heard about it at the time you

90
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:01,310
were obviously nine years old do you

91
00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:03,050
remember hearing about it and were you

92
00:05:09,490 --> 00:05:06,710
in California mmhmm yeah I live in

93
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:09,500
central California yeah I remember her

94
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:11,570
in a bit about it really came to my

95
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:16,010
attention in around that was like 74 or

96
00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:18,770
75 there was a mini-series I don't know

97
00:05:24,370 --> 00:05:21,290
if you recall that called dr. skelter

98
00:05:26,770 --> 00:05:24,380
based on the Bugliosi book in a kind of

99
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:26,780
blew my mind I was at that time I was

100
00:05:33,490 --> 00:05:31,250
kind of becoming interested in the 60s

101
00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:33,500
counterculture you know I was a little

102
00:05:38,340 --> 00:05:35,750
young for that but my brothers were of

103
00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:38,350
that age and I started reached

104
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:40,150
discovering

105
00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:42,250
left a bunch and their albums when they

106
00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:44,140
moved you know the Beatles and doors and

107
00:05:50,940 --> 00:05:46,840
on and on so I was interested in that

108
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:50,950
period and when I saw that miniseries on

109
00:05:57,810 --> 00:05:53,050
the Manson Family kind of blew my mind

110
00:05:59,340 --> 00:05:57,820
like wow that wasn't at the time that

111
00:06:03,720 --> 00:05:59,350
was a long time ago and it was before

112
00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:03,730
you know I later got into making films

113
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:06,310
and television but I was just you know

114
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:09,370
an observer back then in the early mid

115
00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:12,730
70s and I remember thinking it was a

116
00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:15,550
great miniseries so in the guy that

117
00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:20,110
played the part I'm not eat reels back

118
00:06:26,850 --> 00:06:23,620
there you go steve railsback did such an

119
00:06:28,470 --> 00:06:26,860
amazing job I mean he was Charlie Manson

120
00:06:31,970 --> 00:06:28,480
by the end of that thing he would

121
00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:31,980
totally and I remember the most a

122
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:35,290
shocking moment or the scariest moment

123
00:06:41,810 --> 00:06:37,690
for me in the hole or the most dramatic

124
00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:41,820
moment in the whole mini series was when

125
00:06:49,470 --> 00:06:45,850
he was staring at Vincent Bugliosi and

126
00:06:51,150 --> 00:06:49,480
he stopped in stop this watch I'm how I

127
00:06:53,220 --> 00:06:51,160
don't remember exactly how this is worth

128
00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:53,230
wit yeah just like just like you're a

129
00:07:00,720 --> 00:06:57,760
killer yeah exactly and yes yeah that

130
00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:00,730
was Riccio yeah steve railsback knocked

131
00:07:06,570 --> 00:07:04,000
it out of the park I'm a Tory Manson was

132
00:07:10,770 --> 00:07:06,580
this little guy he's at five foot two

133
00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:10,780
and you think how could someone be so

134
00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:14,080
charismatic to you know bringing all

135
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:16,870
these young people and of course I know

136
00:07:22,590 --> 00:07:20,530
sort of how cults work and you don't

137
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:22,600
necessarily have to be a weak person to

138
00:07:26,850 --> 00:07:24,730
get drawn in you it just have yet to be

139
00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:26,860
caught at the right moment or the right

140
00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:30,550
time in your life but maybe he had a

141
00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:34,150
little something more going than what we

142
00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:36,340
realized and maybe that was sort of a

143
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:38,590
clue to that when he stopped that watch

144
00:07:44,610 --> 00:07:42,010
is that possible if that really happened

145
00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:44,620
I mean there's so much mythology

146
00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:47,440
surrounding the Manson murders and

147
00:07:51,690 --> 00:07:50,260
Charles Manson himself sometimes it's

148
00:07:54,010 --> 00:07:51,700
difficult

149
00:07:57,790 --> 00:07:54,020
separating the other week from the chaff

150
00:08:01,510 --> 00:07:57,800
but you know you know as far as his

151
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:01,520
control over his flock I think you know

152
00:08:07,510 --> 00:08:04,850
that can be attributed to you know he

153
00:08:11,290 --> 00:08:07,520
grew up in prison the most of his early

154
00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:11,300
years were in reformatories or prisons

155
00:08:16,450 --> 00:08:14,120
so it was kind of the school of hard

156
00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:16,460
knocks and that's you know that was his

157
00:08:22,180 --> 00:08:18,620
school that's where he learned to become

158
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:22,190
a manipulator and such and was also he

159
00:08:29,110 --> 00:08:25,970
mentioned Scientology the early 60s he

160
00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:29,120
was exposed to Scientology when he was

161
00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:31,820
serving time at McNeil Island up in

162
00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:34,760
Washington State and according to the

163
00:08:41,409 --> 00:08:38,510
stories he was part of a oh there were

164
00:08:43,930 --> 00:08:41,419
several folks in a Cell that studied

165
00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:43,940
under a guy named linear rainier who was

166
00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:47,470
a Scientology auditor you could teach

167
00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:50,240
Scientology and so that's where Madison

168
00:08:57,820 --> 00:08:54,500
was first exposed to Scientology and you

169
00:09:01,570 --> 00:08:57,830
know different ways of quote-unquote

170
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:01,580
mind control and you know what's become

171
00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:04,970
known as it NLP these days so he was

172
00:09:09,940 --> 00:09:07,640
exposed to that type of stuff pretty

173
00:09:12,850 --> 00:09:09,950
early and some of his mentors in jail

174
00:09:16,810 --> 00:09:12,860
were some heavy hitters like gap Alvin

175
00:09:19,270 --> 00:09:16,820
creepy Karpis who was oh yeah public

176
00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:19,280
enemy number one actually taught Manson

177
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:25,760
to play guitar and such and mafiosos

178
00:09:32,590 --> 00:09:30,530
like Frankie carbo Manson got two new

179
00:09:35,650 --> 00:09:32,600
nose you know and learn from these guys

180
00:09:38,350 --> 00:09:35,660
and so by the time he got out last time

181
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:38,360
you got out of prison you know before

182
00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:42,770
the murders was in 67 and he was in his

183
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:46,550
early 30s at that point in landed Ino in

184
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:49,490
the San Francisco in the haight ashbury

185
00:09:56,890 --> 00:09:51,890
and the young hippie kids and chicks

186
00:09:59,230 --> 00:09:56,900
were like prime for to be fleeced by him

187
00:10:01,980 --> 00:09:59,240
and he moved riding that scene grew his

188
00:10:05,410 --> 00:10:01,990
hair long was somewhat you know how fast

189
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:05,420
musicians so he was able to

190
00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:08,210
you know it first tracked a couple of

191
00:10:13,270 --> 00:10:10,220
girls and then it kind of grew over a

192
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:13,280
period of time as did his control over

193
00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:20,450
them well absolutely now so you think he

194
00:10:23,740 --> 00:10:21,740
might have been employing some of these

195
00:10:28,090 --> 00:10:23,750
methods that he learned from the

196
00:10:30,430 --> 00:10:28,100
Scientology auditors as well as from the

197
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:30,440
criminals in the cons that he ran into

198
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:33,250
there and so that so I think so I

199
00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:36,530
remember the conspiracy researcher and

200
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:40,460
writer Jim Keith I absolutely do I I had

201
00:10:47,410 --> 00:10:44,450
a chance to speak with Jim a few times

202
00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:47,420
when I was working on a TV series called

203
00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:50,990
strange universe oh you know yeah yeah

204
00:10:59,740 --> 00:10:54,500
we talked with Jimmy it that was it too

205
00:11:01,770 --> 00:10:59,750
long before he died or mate yeah cuz

206
00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:01,780
didn't he die and about in the 90s

207
00:11:10,270 --> 00:11:06,710
around I was at that burning man he was

208
00:11:12,420 --> 00:11:10,280
at burning man who was around 99 you

209
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:12,430
mentioned we were talking earlier

210
00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:14,690
getting off on a little bit of a tangent

211
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:17,420
terabit will circle back to what we were

212
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:20,320
talking about I have written an article

213
00:11:26,350 --> 00:11:23,810
was actually review of Jim Keith saucers

214
00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:26,360
of the Illuminati for UFO magazine back

215
00:11:32,260 --> 00:11:31,100
and since the late 90s when he died so

216
00:11:35,380 --> 00:11:32,270
there's a connection there but

217
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:35,390
interestingly enough Jim keith was a

218
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:39,200
former high-level Scientologist a lot of

219
00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:42,050
people don't know that I did not know

220
00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:45,470
that and he shared with me a few things

221
00:11:51,310 --> 00:11:48,230
he saw different films and stuff of

222
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:51,320
Manson and he said Manson was employing

223
00:11:58,270 --> 00:11:53,990
certain techniques that came from

224
00:12:00,370 --> 00:11:58,280
Scientology like doing mirroring

225
00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:00,380
techniques of people when you're talking

226
00:12:06,220 --> 00:12:03,230
to somebody if you start done mirroring

227
00:12:09,490 --> 00:12:06,230
their actions very subtly you can build

228
00:12:11,410 --> 00:12:09,500
a rapport with them that's y a method

229
00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:11,420
that's also in neuro linguistic

230
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:15,380
programming so when I talked to Jim this

231
00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:17,450
was years ago he pointed out a few

232
00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:19,080
things

233
00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:22,110
and matched Matson speech and mannerism

234
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:24,870
that told him that he was employing

235
00:12:36,140 --> 00:12:31,410
different Scientology techniques Wow now

236
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:36,150
I don't remember exactly the mode of

237
00:12:41,420 --> 00:12:39,660
Jim's death and but I do know that there

238
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:41,430
was something suspicious about it and

239
00:12:48,650 --> 00:12:45,930
then won it a few years later that his

240
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:48,660
Co one of his co-authors or co-editors

241
00:12:57,050 --> 00:12:54,240
and died was that Jerry Smith or well we

242
00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:57,060
can go down that hat because it's tied

243
00:13:02,030 --> 00:12:59,940
into discordian is a model enough when

244
00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:02,040
we get back to Madison but you know some

245
00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:09,000
rot it up so Jim died thinking it was 98

246
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:12,420
or 99 and he was at the Burning Man

247
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:15,810
festival e not Danny without a desert

248
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:17,940
that you but he knows about Bernie man

249
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:21,330
up and to a couple over the years and so

250
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:23,490
he was there and he was up on a stage

251
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:26,220
doing some performance thing dancing

252
00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:28,230
whatever and he jumped off the stage you

253
00:13:32,450 --> 00:13:30,630
know it it was like he was a skidding

254
00:13:34,810 --> 00:13:32,460
off the stage it was like a three foot

255
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:34,820
drop or whatever but he tweaked his knee

256
00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:39,240
and screwed it up and you know it's got

257
00:13:45,850 --> 00:13:42,060
bad enough next day he went in for

258
00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:45,860
medical attention to Washoe County

259
00:13:53,510 --> 00:13:50,640
Hospital there and they put him under

260
00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:53,520
her and he was really nervous about

261
00:13:58,460 --> 00:13:55,740
going under at an ascetic for this

262
00:14:02,240 --> 00:13:58,470
routine surgery during the course of

263
00:14:04,220 --> 00:14:02,250
surgery on his knee a blood clot was

264
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:04,230
released what you know went to his lungs

265
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:07,740
or wherever and killed him and he he had

266
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:10,650
told somebody you know before he before

267
00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:13,070
the surgery started that he was

268
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:17,960
reluctant to go under anesthesia because

269
00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:20,610
is what concern something like that

270
00:14:25,940 --> 00:14:23,280
might happen so you know so a lot of

271
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,950
people well did he feel like somebody

272
00:14:28,820 --> 00:14:27,600
was out to get him or do you feel like

273
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:28,830
he might have you know a lot of people

274
00:14:34,130 --> 00:14:31,380
do seem to kind of have a premonition

275
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,140
sometimes about their own demise what I

276
00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:36,480
know about Jim he wasn't overly paranoid

277
00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:38,540
about that you know even being a

278
00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:41,190
conspiracy writer he was there was kind

279
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:45,150
of that I the humorous Irishman side to

280
00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:46,890
him you know but he knew and he was

281
00:14:50,750 --> 00:14:49,080
getting into some heavy stuff but other

282
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:50,760
people wrote about it at the time like

283
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:52,770
ken thomas you know candy was a good

284
00:14:59,480 --> 00:14:55,770
friend yeah Ken's gonna be on next week

285
00:15:01,340 --> 00:14:59,490
oh right on yeah so you can ask him

286
00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:01,350
about this but they wrote the octopus

287
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:03,540
together about do you know Danny

288
00:15:10,010 --> 00:15:05,970
casillero Danny casillero that that

289
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,020
whole deal and at the time of you know

290
00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:12,480
right before Jim died he was looking

291
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:17,310
into the death of Princess Diana and it

292
00:15:23,270 --> 00:15:20,330
uncovered some pretty you know

293
00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:23,280
controversial material suggesting that

294
00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:26,060
she was pregnant you know with Jody

295
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:29,100
Fayed was at her boyfriend with Rhoda

296
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:34,320
yeah oh yeah with his child and he had

297
00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:36,090
other material is he was getting ready

298
00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:38,550
to expose this so some people point to

299
00:15:46,030 --> 00:15:41,430
that you know who knows but so that was

300
00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:46,040
if I can get all the dates right here so

301
00:15:53,420 --> 00:15:49,860
a year or two later this all happened

302
00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:53,430
you know within a couple years Jim

303
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:55,710
Keith's publisher was wrong bonds at

304
00:16:02,390 --> 00:15:58,860
illumina press I I knew him pretty good

305
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:02,400
too lumen Empress was pretty much the

306
00:16:09,250 --> 00:16:07,410
foremost publisher of conspiracy books

307
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:09,260
you know along with a couple other

308
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:12,690
publishers like feral house yeah and

309
00:16:18,950 --> 00:16:15,720
another curious death that he died of

310
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,960
food poisoning in a Mexican restaurant

311
00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:21,120
and you know a lot of people raise their

312
00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:24,390
eyebrows because keep Jim Keith and Ron

313
00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:27,750
bonds you know at you know right at the

314
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:29,910
time of Jim's d

315
00:16:36,950 --> 00:16:35,040
were pretty working closely together Jim

316
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:36,960
Keith had been become like you know a

317
00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:40,320
partner in aluminum press so over the

318
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:41,760
course of the couple of years the main

319
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:45,570
players there were gone and no longer

320
00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:49,710
publishing conspiracy buds now there was

321
00:16:54,890 --> 00:16:52,980
one other person involved with the

322
00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:54,900
illuminant press who died around the

323
00:17:01,060 --> 00:16:57,660
same period sky I've written quite a bit

324
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:01,070
about by the name of Kerry Thornleigh

325
00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:04,890
who maybe we'll get well given he's

326
00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:08,670
involved in sporty anism Discordians him

327
00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:11,460
yeah but but he was just briefly his

328
00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:14,390
connection with aluminum press was

329
00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:17,190
illuminate press brought out a bunch of

330
00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:19,350
Kerry Thornleigh's books he hadn't

331
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:21,630
really been books that hadn't been

332
00:17:26,810 --> 00:17:23,670
published before dealing with the

333
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:26,820
Kennedy assassination Oswald this type

334
00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:29,730
of stuff and you know in fact the first

335
00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:32,040
book published by illuminate press was

336
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:35,340
thornless book the idol warriors and he

337
00:17:40,940 --> 00:17:38,520
published a total of a three title so

338
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:40,950
Carrie Thornleigh and Jim Keith were the

339
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:45,210
most published authors at illuminant

340
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:48,930
press and thorley Gaiden now 98 I think

341
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:54,570
Keith died in 99 then pounds died in two

342
00:18:00,140 --> 00:17:57,690
thousand so I might not have the dates

343
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:00,150
exactly right so in the course of three

344
00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:02,250
years you know them main three players

345
00:18:09,620 --> 00:18:05,270
at the limit at press were all gone and

346
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:09,630
yeah I was I remember sometime later I

347
00:18:14,420 --> 00:18:11,970
started doing this show I've been doing

348
00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:14,430
it now for about seven or eight years I

349
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:18,470
was at a different venue before but I

350
00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:23,490
was going to have a Jerry Smith come on

351
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:28,460
and I contacted him but he was too ill

352
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:31,830
and he eat so he never did make it on

353
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:35,280
but uh you know I think he might have

354
00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:38,490
had some questions about his illness i

355
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:40,740
don't know but there seemed to be a lot

356
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:43,710
of people you know dying around

357
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:46,760
around Jim Keith in that whole situation

358
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:51,240
yeah as far as Jerry Smith he died more

359
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:53,370
you guys sometime later yeah yeah like a

360
00:19:00,139 --> 00:18:56,610
couple years ago I was in that reason

361
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:00,149
yeah the problem not more than I think

362
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:09,679
maybe your absorb utt you know people do

363
00:19:16,250 --> 00:19:13,679
we all die we are yeah and we and we all

364
00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:16,260
look for conspiracies to her at least i

365
00:19:23,169 --> 00:19:19,500
do i guess but i always said if you look

366
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:23,179
hard enough you will find a haha yeah

367
00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:28,200
but now but to the demand something did

368
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:32,340
he did he what perform you talked about

369
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:36,090
black magic was he actually performing

370
00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:38,250
black magic rituals and things like that

371
00:19:44,620 --> 00:19:41,070
that you were able to find out and was

372
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:44,630
that how he sort of controlled people

373
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:48,690
with magic or was it just simply through

374
00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:52,080
the con through the mind control well

375
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:54,630
yeah and use an acid you know there was

376
00:20:01,399 --> 00:19:58,440
some amount of ritual going on

377
00:20:03,529 --> 00:20:01,409
especially with a lot of you know they'd

378
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:03,539
have group orgies and that type of stuff

379
00:20:10,399 --> 00:20:08,490
which you know is basically sex magic

380
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:10,409
who's trying to alter the consciousness

381
00:20:16,010 --> 00:20:12,990
of the group and make them into one

382
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:16,020
being was kind of the trip in the latter

383
00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:19,529
days of the Manson Family so yeah it

384
00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:24,270
definitely relates to ritual magic sex

385
00:20:31,639 --> 00:20:29,100
magic so like I said there's a lot of

386
00:20:33,950 --> 00:20:31,649
Mythology about this stuff two tons of

387
00:20:37,159 --> 00:20:33,960
books and sorting through that sometimes

388
00:20:39,769 --> 00:20:37,169
it's hard to tell what has been made up

389
00:20:42,919 --> 00:20:39,779
and what is not but you look at the

390
00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:42,929
roots of the Manson Family it's pretty

391
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:46,200
interesting even prior to matteson

392
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:52,740
getting out of prison in 67 another guy

393
00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:56,340
you familiar with Bobby pozole sure yet

394
00:21:02,090 --> 00:20:59,070
he was so the first actual Madsen murder

395
00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:02,100
was committed by Bobby bosal a of Gary

396
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:05,940
hinman that was like in August it wasn't

397
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:09,600
Bobby buzz laying later murdered new now

398
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:12,390
mr. Beausoleil still alive but really

399
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:16,710
and he's in prison oh oh I see what kind

400
00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:19,290
of forgotten about him jerry ehman was

401
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:21,300
the one that was murdered in the desert

402
00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:23,850
right or left out in the desert now he

403
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:26,190
was Henman was murdered in Topanga

404
00:21:34,540 --> 00:21:29,610
Canyon at his home and what was his

405
00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:34,550
connection well he was a drug dealer

406
00:21:41,540 --> 00:21:37,830
bathtub chemist and it there you know he

407
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:41,550
was making think it was a different

408
00:21:47,150 --> 00:21:44,640
drugs but mess going and so those olay

409
00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:47,160
was a middleman and there was a biker

410
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,030
group that bozo lay sold some of him and

411
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:53,940
stuff too and the biker group said they

412
00:21:58,820 --> 00:21:55,530
got sick and they wanted their money

413
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,830
back so it kind of put Bobby bozo lay in

414
00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:01,440
the middle of hinman and this biker

415
00:22:08,030 --> 00:22:05,040
group and things eventually this kind of

416
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:08,040
swirled out of control when because the

417
00:22:12,049 --> 00:22:09,809
bikers wanted their money back in hinman

418
00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:12,059
wouldn't come across with it so that led

419
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:15,900
to the first murder but getting back to

420
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:18,510
the cult stuff you know bosal a he was

421
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:22,250
it it was and is a very talented

422
00:22:31,460 --> 00:22:26,760
musician he was in LA in the mid-60s

423
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:31,470
actually played with a early version of

424
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:33,720
Arthur Lee's love if you remember that

425
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:39,090
group and I'm familiar got it great 60s

426
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:42,510
group then he moved those Lee broke

427
00:22:51,650 --> 00:22:47,760
broke up with her left love Arthur Lee's

428
00:22:53,419 --> 00:22:51,660
love and moved to San Francisco are they

429
00:22:55,610 --> 00:22:53,429
kicked him out for the pan whatever the

430
00:22:57,979 --> 00:22:55,620
case may be but he ended up in San

431
00:23:03,450 --> 00:22:57,989
Francisco around

432
00:23:05,999 --> 00:23:03,460
1966 formed his own band and came to the

433
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:06,009
attention of the experimental filmmaker

434
00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:09,850
Kenneth Anger we had a long history in

435
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:13,529
the occult news prodigy a disciple of

436
00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:17,350
Aleister Crowley Andy he may be familiar

437
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:21,700
with some of angers films they delve

438
00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:26,470
into a lot of these darker areas and so

439
00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:29,980
during this period anger or saw bosal a

440
00:23:34,379 --> 00:23:32,190
plane to the concert somewhere and

441
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:34,389
approached him and asked if you wanted

442
00:23:40,139 --> 00:23:38,080
to be in a film he was trying to get

443
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:40,149
going called Lucifer rising and he

444
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:42,809
wanted bosal a to play the lead part of

445
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:47,460
Lucifer and so yeah Bosley we can't

446
00:23:55,259 --> 00:23:51,279
started this relationship with Kenneth

447
00:23:58,849 --> 00:23:55,269
Anger and it's always Kenneth Anger into

448
00:24:01,769 --> 00:23:58,859
philosophy wise with the Lucifer rising

449
00:24:05,249 --> 00:24:01,779
well he was into crew lethal emic

450
00:24:08,909 --> 00:24:05,259
Magister you know that type of stuff is

451
00:24:11,729 --> 00:24:08,919
far ya know that's where he was coming

452
00:24:15,539 --> 00:24:11,739
from and you know they started filming

453
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:15,549
this movie but they had a falling out of

454
00:24:21,889 --> 00:24:17,710
some stuff and you hear different sides

455
00:24:24,749 --> 00:24:21,899
of the story anger says that those olay

456
00:24:28,289 --> 00:24:24,759
ran off of some of the film footage and

457
00:24:31,289 --> 00:24:28,299
all this and according to legend anger

458
00:24:32,729 --> 00:24:31,299
placed a curse on bozo lane which who

459
00:24:40,049 --> 00:24:32,739
knows might have led to the Manson

460
00:24:42,509 --> 00:24:40,059
Family the sum of the film footage later

461
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:42,519
came out in the film you can find it

462
00:24:46,919 --> 00:24:43,679
might even be on YouTube called

463
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:46,929
invocation of my demon brother with

464
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:49,960
Basel a in it as well as none other than

465
00:24:59,159 --> 00:24:55,600
Anton LaVey of the Ohio State and anger

466
00:25:02,310 --> 00:24:59,169
and well they had a long relationship to

467
00:25:04,769 --> 00:25:02,320
prior to church of satan they were Greek

468
00:25:09,019 --> 00:25:04,779
called the Magic Circle so you had that

469
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:09,029
connection with the Bobby bosal a

470
00:25:19,889 --> 00:25:16,960
then ultimately anger or you know use

471
00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:19,899
the footage from the original Lucifer

472
00:25:25,769 --> 00:25:23,110
rising for this movie invocation for my

473
00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:25,779
demon brother but then later on anger

474
00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:27,820
did a new production of Lucifer rising

475
00:25:35,639 --> 00:25:32,200
that was different from Lena the bosal a

476
00:25:39,049 --> 00:25:35,649
footage and Lucifer rising film was

477
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:39,059
being developed in the 70s and he got

478
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:43,330
became anger became friends with jimmy

479
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:47,200
page with Led Zeppelin mmm he was into

480
00:25:52,019 --> 00:25:48,880
Aleister Crowley of course yeah and

481
00:25:54,690 --> 00:25:52,029
after South I'm yeah page was living in

482
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:54,700
Crowley's castle they called bull skin

483
00:26:01,019 --> 00:25:58,559
there awk Ness nagar went out there and

484
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:01,029
was kind of working on his film there

485
00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:04,809
and having Jimmy Page do the soundtrack

486
00:26:11,370 --> 00:26:07,630
at that time anyway once again anger has

487
00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:11,380
not falling out with age and so they

488
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,630
never use jimmy page's soundtrack that

489
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:15,760
you're asking what beausoleil is doing

490
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:19,120
in recent times anger approach bosal a

491
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:22,299
this was in the 70s to produce the

492
00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:24,610
soundtrack for the new Lucifer rising

493
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:26,950
film which puzzle a ended up producing

494
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:30,000
in tracy prison in California and it's a

495
00:26:38,669 --> 00:26:35,980
pretty badass soundtrack really yeah so

496
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:38,679
he's continued doing music over the

497
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:41,440
years and was released several albums

498
00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:45,179
you can find online and does kind of

499
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:47,980
rehabilitated his image he works with

500
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:51,039
youth groups and you know and however

501
00:26:56,370 --> 00:26:53,350
that works when you're in prison and I

502
00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:56,380
think if any of the former Manson nights

503
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,340
has a chance of getting out I was gonna

504
00:27:05,639 --> 00:27:02,320
say that because he did he had nothing

505
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:05,649
to do with the tape LaBianca murders now

506
00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:09,130
he was he was uh forget he's either

507
00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:11,830
locked up or on the run at that time he

508
00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:14,590
might have some some knowledge of it but

509
00:27:20,220 --> 00:27:16,840
just you know just because he's been so

510
00:27:24,419 --> 00:27:20,230
active the last couple decades and

511
00:27:27,659 --> 00:27:24,429
doing work that positive working with

512
00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:27,669
youth thing maybe he has a chance but

513
00:27:34,350 --> 00:27:30,190
yeah so remember there was an old

514
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,360
Richard Pryor comedy album and he

515
00:27:40,650 --> 00:27:37,120
somehow mentioned the Manson murders in

516
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:40,660
it and he says yeah there they won't get

517
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:42,070
out is that as long as they're making

518
00:27:46,409 --> 00:27:44,590
coffee they'll never get out because you

519
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:46,419
know of course abigail folger was one of

520
00:27:51,030 --> 00:27:49,870
the one of the victims yeah have you

521
00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:51,040
never would that when the murder

522
00:27:56,039 --> 00:27:52,780
happened you know it was like a year

523
00:27:57,659 --> 00:27:56,049
after rosemary's baby came out so

524
00:27:59,700 --> 00:27:57,669
everybody caught a new who Roman

525
00:28:03,600 --> 00:27:59,710
Polanski was here in the United States

526
00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:03,610
at that time and you know the movie was

527
00:28:08,130 --> 00:28:05,980
so dark I remember thinking oh it has

528
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:08,140
something to do with Rosemary's Baby or

529
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:10,960
Roman Polanski r you know in the fact

530
00:28:16,049 --> 00:28:13,090
there was another guy there in the room

531
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:16,059
with Cher and Jay Sebring who was her

532
00:28:22,289 --> 00:28:19,600
good friend I guess I thought oh it's

533
00:28:25,169 --> 00:28:22,299
he's you know he's angry because it's

534
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:25,179
other guys there but then of course soon

535
00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:28,260
we found out that it was the Manson's

536
00:28:34,049 --> 00:28:31,480
but that Prince yeah that's another one

537
00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:34,059
of the legends that is not true

538
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:39,400
regarding Rosemary's Baby that for years

539
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:41,890
people have been floating this rumor I

540
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:44,049
don't know how it got started but maybe

541
00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:46,570
Anton LaVey started in it himself but

542
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:49,870
the story was that Anton LaVey had

543
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,010
worked on Rosemary's Baby and actually

544
00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:56,320
played Satan in the movie had been a

545
00:29:04,230 --> 00:28:59,380
technical advisor and all this you know

546
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:04,240
and that at some point during the movie

547
00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:07,350
him and Polanski had a falling out and

548
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:10,660
afterwards well they put a curse on

549
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:12,610
Polanski which led to the Manson Family

550
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:16,150
murders but that story's not true if you

551
00:29:20,850 --> 00:29:18,730
look on the internet you'll see

552
00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:20,860
different iterations of the story that

553
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:24,100
lavey was involved with the Rosemary's

554
00:29:31,049 --> 00:29:28,210
Baby where uh of course we know was

555
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:31,059
filmed at the code of building were John

556
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:33,700
Lennon was later shot that's right

557
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:38,409
I got on the thing about some of the

558
00:29:51,539 --> 00:29:48,629
65 or 66 once again before Manson got

559
00:29:56,669 --> 00:29:51,549
out and the family got started future

560
00:29:59,789 --> 00:29:56,679
Manson Family murderous Susan Atkins was

561
00:30:04,529 --> 00:29:59,799
in San Francisco working as a topless

562
00:30:09,539 --> 00:30:04,539
dancer where she ended up working for

563
00:30:11,730 --> 00:30:09,549
none other than Anton LaVey oh wow lavey

564
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:11,740
at that time had what was called the

565
00:30:21,419 --> 00:30:16,110
witches Sabbath it was like a topless

566
00:30:26,220 --> 00:30:21,429
which is you know review of topless

567
00:30:29,370 --> 00:30:26,230
dancers whatever in Susan Atkins for

568
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:29,380
that topless revue played the part of

569
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:33,610
the vampire where she would have blood

570
00:30:40,529 --> 00:30:37,690
dripping from teeth after every

571
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,539
performance oh that's kind of ironic

572
00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:43,360
isn't it you know what else it's it's

573
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:44,919
the top of the hour it's eight o'clock

574
00:30:48,659 --> 00:30:46,809
and we're going to take a quick wrecker

575
00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:48,669
it's actually eight o'clock pacific time

576
00:30:52,169 --> 00:30:50,500
i should say eleven o'clock eastern

577
00:30:55,169 --> 00:30:52,179
we're going to kick take a quick break

578
00:30:56,909 --> 00:30:55,179
and when we come back we're going to go

579
00:31:00,659 --> 00:30:56,919
a little bit further with adam go

580
00:31:03,539 --> 00:31:00,669
rightly and into his research with new

581
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:03,549
book historia discordia hang in there

582
00:31:35,989 --> 00:31:33,560
hello everyone Laurieann fenton here

583
00:31:39,349 --> 00:31:35,999
hosted the California MUFON radio show

584
00:31:42,379 --> 00:31:39,359
asking if you'd like special access to

585
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:42,389
exclusive and amazing information about

586
00:31:48,979 --> 00:31:45,720
UFOs the paranormal and all things

587
00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:48,989
unexplained if you're nodding yes then

588
00:31:54,379 --> 00:31:52,590
join I rn's insider club as an insider

589
00:31:57,349 --> 00:31:54,389
club member you'll get an all-access

590
00:31:59,749 --> 00:31:57,359
pass to premier inception radio network

591
00:32:02,299 --> 00:31:59,759
content for only four dollars and

592
00:32:06,169 --> 00:32:02,309
ninety-nine cents a month this includes

593
00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:06,179
live UFO and paranormal conferences live

594
00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:09,479
streaming UFO sky watches exclusive I

595
00:32:15,109 --> 00:32:12,179
are in radio and TV productions and of

596
00:32:17,869 --> 00:32:15,119
course paying radio with MJ and Ken

597
00:32:20,749 --> 00:32:17,879
Storch so don't wait any longer visit

598
00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:20,759
inception radio network calm and click

599
00:32:28,729 --> 00:32:24,119
on member login to join I rn's insider

600
00:32:31,219 --> 00:32:28,739
club and get your VIP access today are

601
00:32:32,810 --> 00:32:31,229
you a final inception radio network do

602
00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:32,820
you reckon it's the best alternative

603
00:32:37,399 --> 00:32:35,190
talk radio station on the planet well if

604
00:32:40,659 --> 00:32:37,409
you do head to facebook.com forward

605
00:32:43,339 --> 00:32:40,669
slash inception radio network like page

606
00:32:46,970 --> 00:32:43,349
tell your friends spread the word and

607
00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:50,250
you have a smartphone if so conception

608
00:32:55,650 --> 00:32:52,120
radio network is the best out for you

609
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:55,660
available itunes android samsung and

610
00:33:00,180 --> 00:32:57,730
most other app stores just search

611
00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:00,190
inception radio network with the

612
00:33:04,650 --> 00:33:02,140
applicant listen live check out more

613
00:33:06,690 --> 00:33:04,660
cast of recent amp are shown who are

614
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:06,700
videos see what shows are coming up

615
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:09,370
through the guests are and via the chat

616
00:33:14,190 --> 00:33:11,650
room send live questions to those guests

617
00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:14,200
you know it makes sense check your App

618
00:33:24,510 --> 00:33:17,620
Store now inception radio network sees

619
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:24,520
it hey IRA listeners make sure you tune

620
00:33:28,830 --> 00:33:26,980
in to night vision radio with Renee

621
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:28,840
Barnett where name will be exposing the

622
00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:30,760
truth one secret at a time when

623
00:33:39,710 --> 00:33:33,820
Thursdays every Thursday 1030pm eastern

624
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:42,900
the lower end listeners this is MJ

625
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,370
saying hello and sharing us and secret i

626
00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:48,240
discovered it's called dream lodge calm

627
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:51,070
fresh raw organic ingredients are used

628
00:33:55,650 --> 00:33:53,350
to create all their products they are

629
00:33:58,380 --> 00:33:55,660
made in very small batches to ensure

630
00:34:01,410 --> 00:33:58,390
quality and freshness and made in the

631
00:34:03,050 --> 00:34:01,420
USA each product is created with care

632
00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:03,060
and with the finest organic ingredients

633
00:34:06,990 --> 00:34:05,590
there are no preservatives dies or

634
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:07,000
chemicals in any product

635
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:11,200
stop by dream lodge and laughs that's dr

636
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:26,120
you're locked into inception radio

637
00:34:33,730 --> 00:35:05,840
so much

638
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:08,340
hi thanks for hanging in there with us

639
00:35:12,450 --> 00:35:10,900
if you're just joining us I'm Renee

640
00:35:15,570 --> 00:35:12,460
Barnett your host it's his night vision

641
00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:15,580
radio and we are talking to author

642
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:19,030
journalist and historian Adam go rightly

643
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:21,970
and we've been talking about the Manson

644
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:24,790
gang the Manson Family Charlie Manson

645
00:35:33,630 --> 00:35:28,690
and his occult connections and we're

646
00:35:36,750 --> 00:35:33,640
going to go right into Adams new book

647
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:36,760
called historia discordia which is

648
00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:38,650
believe it or not there is a there is a

649
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:42,660
relationship there but can you tell us a

650
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:45,070
first of all because I wasn't familiar

651
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:49,270
with this at all this idea of discordian

652
00:35:55,830 --> 00:35:51,760
ism what is it and where did it come

653
00:36:00,120 --> 00:35:55,840
from started in Southern California and

654
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:00,130
whittier back in the late 50s paralia

655
00:36:08,910 --> 00:36:04,170
start holy value that's still there Wow

656
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:08,920
yeah in fact I kind of quote-unquote

657
00:36:13,860 --> 00:36:11,110
rediscovered that bowling alley a few

658
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:13,870
years ago and we did a kind of spoof

659
00:36:20,820 --> 00:36:16,240
ritual therefore discordian ISM button

660
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,830
how it started these two kids Greg Hill

661
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:23,280
and Carrie Thornleigh I grew up in

662
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:27,670
whittier attended Cal hi there and used

663
00:36:35,490 --> 00:36:31,410
to spend a lot of time in bowling alleys

664
00:36:39,090 --> 00:36:35,500
in the Bible of discordian isn't

665
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:39,100
principia discordia they say they spent

666
00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:41,410
time in bowling alleys sipping coffee

667
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:43,500
and talking about philosophy and

668
00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:47,280
politics and these type of things but I

669
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:50,220
think one of the main reasons they

670
00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:53,350
frequented bowling alleys because they

671
00:36:59,790 --> 00:36:57,250
can get beer there stay up to odd hours

672
00:37:02,910 --> 00:36:59,800
and just talking and riffing on

673
00:37:05,370 --> 00:37:02,920
different subjects and you know these

674
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:05,380
guys are a couple of free thinkers for

675
00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:07,450
their for that age you know the

676
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:10,540
Eisenhower 50s they were thrown all

677
00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:13,690
kinds of things around and at one point

678
00:37:21,089 --> 00:37:15,700
they started this

679
00:37:23,339 --> 00:37:21,099
Cashin questioning you know why was

680
00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:23,349
there so much chaos in the world you

681
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:25,990
know and all these different religions

682
00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:28,690
have these different deities who were

683
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:31,390
trying to impose order but it never

684
00:37:36,839 --> 00:37:33,900
seemed to work you know and jokingly

685
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:36,849
carry Thornleigh said to grey kill what

686
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:40,560
we need is our own religion dedicated to

687
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:45,280
chaos our own deity in Craig Hill said

688
00:37:50,579 --> 00:37:46,950
well there already is one in Greek

689
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:50,589
mythology thats at Aris the Greek

690
00:37:57,630 --> 00:37:53,950
goddess of chaos and discord so right

691
00:38:00,990 --> 00:37:57,640
then back there in 1958 they started

692
00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:01,000
what initially was a spoof religion

693
00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:03,400
called discordian ism and formed the

694
00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:06,369
Discordians society so that's where it

695
00:38:12,569 --> 00:38:09,400
started you know was just an in-joke at

696
00:38:17,790 --> 00:38:12,579
that time way back in the 1950s between

697
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:17,800
these guys and so the next step in the

698
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:21,130
story we leave discordian ism for a

699
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:24,910
little bit Kerry Thornleigh uh he was a

700
00:38:30,839 --> 00:38:27,910
Marine Corps reservist in high school

701
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:30,849
there and so to fulfill his active duty

702
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:33,430
he enlisted in the Marines this was like

703
00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:36,730
in league 57 58 and I think he had a

704
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:39,940
sense that the Vietnam War was on the

705
00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:41,410
horizon too so I wanted to get his

706
00:38:54,660 --> 00:38:44,950
military service out of the way so he

707
00:38:59,130 --> 00:38:54,670
was a station that this was in 59 no

708
00:39:02,730 --> 00:38:59,140
late 58 at El Toro Marine base near

709
00:39:06,329 --> 00:39:02,740
santa ana and it was there that he met

710
00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:06,339
none other than Lee Harvey Oswald that's

711
00:39:12,750 --> 00:39:09,900
crazy yeah well it gets much crazier

712
00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:12,760
oswal did previously been stationed at

713
00:39:19,410 --> 00:39:16,569
dot sugi airbase in japan and apparently

714
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:19,420
you know the cover story at least was he

715
00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:21,369
got into a lot of trouble so he came

716
00:39:28,510 --> 00:39:26,440
back to the states with the rank of

717
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:28,520
Corporal which was kind of odd

718
00:39:35,590 --> 00:39:32,930
you know because anybody then over had

719
00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:35,600
at least the excuse me came over still

720
00:39:39,970 --> 00:39:37,670
with the rank of pipe privately-owned

721
00:39:42,540 --> 00:39:39,980
which was odd because anybody came back

722
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:42,550
usually was a corporal so he had this

723
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:44,870
shroud hanging over him as like a

724
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:48,650
screw-up and that's the period that he

725
00:39:54,730 --> 00:39:51,200
and Thornleigh met in over a you know a

726
00:39:56,740 --> 00:39:54,740
couple month period they became casual

727
00:39:59,980 --> 00:39:56,750
friends and poorly was a guy who liked

728
00:40:01,960 --> 00:39:59,990
to engage in conversations and so he

729
00:40:05,490 --> 00:40:01,970
engaged in many conversations with

730
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:05,500
Oswald about politics and philosophy and

731
00:40:10,990 --> 00:40:08,750
religion and on and on and so they got

732
00:40:13,950 --> 00:40:11,000
to know each other briefly over that

733
00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:13,960
short period of a couple months then

734
00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:16,910
Thornleigh was shipped over to otsuki

735
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:19,070
were Oswald had previously been

736
00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:21,920
stationed and on his trip over on the

737
00:40:27,970 --> 00:40:24,920
boat over to Otsuki he started working

738
00:40:31,570 --> 00:40:27,980
on a novel titled the idle lawyers about

739
00:40:34,810 --> 00:40:31,580
being a in the military during the Cold

740
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:34,820
War period and the main character in the

741
00:40:39,820 --> 00:40:37,310
book was named Johnny Shelburne who was

742
00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:39,830
kind of a composite character based on

743
00:40:45,370 --> 00:40:42,350
Thornleigh himself two different Marines

744
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:45,380
he had known including oswal so

745
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:47,810
Thornleigh gets over to Otsuki and it

746
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:51,470
was during that time frame that he heard

747
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:54,800
that Oswald defected to Russia and he

748
00:41:00,970 --> 00:40:58,640
the holy crap that's still the story

749
00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:00,980
there and at that point he decided to

750
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:05,240
base his book idle lawyers primarily now

751
00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:07,790
on Lee Harvey Oswald so that's kind of

752
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:10,190
the first oddity in the story that

753
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:13,400
thorley was writing a book about Oswald

754
00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:14,900
three years before the Kennedy

755
00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:18,260
assassination now when when he went to

756
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:21,080
and defected to Russia he said

757
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:25,120
Thornleigh was like holy cow well what

758
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:28,130
had he revealed anything to Thornleigh

759
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:31,790
prior to that that would let him know

760
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:33,650
something about his politics that would

761
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:35,660
make normally say oh my god she actually

762
00:41:41,060 --> 00:41:39,170
did it or well or was it was it just

763
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:41,070
opposite of what he had said

764
00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:49,050
no um when Oswald got to el Toro you

765
00:41:57,710 --> 00:41:52,760
know or Thornleigh knew him he was

766
00:41:59,860 --> 00:41:57,720
learning to speak Russian so he'd lay

767
00:42:02,690 --> 00:41:59,870
some Russian on you know different

768
00:42:05,570 --> 00:42:02,700
conversations jokingly a lot of the time

769
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:05,580
and he also subscribed openly to pravda

770
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:12,780
and and so he was interested in Marxist

771
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:15,450
ideology and so that's kind of the thing

772
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:18,720
that he informally had conversations

773
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:21,690
about you know politics and different

774
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:25,250
political ideologies and whatnot but

775
00:42:30,220 --> 00:42:27,990
really looking deeply into this over the

776
00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:30,230
years and I've written a couple of books

777
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:33,110
one was the prankster in the conspiracy

778
00:42:38,990 --> 00:42:36,330
bio of Kerry Thornleigh in 2003 then

779
00:42:41,590 --> 00:42:39,000
most recently a book that goes more into

780
00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:41,600
depth called caught in the crossfire

781
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:44,430
Kerry Thornleigh Lee Oswald the garrison

782
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:47,400
investigation what I think Oswald was up

783
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:52,770
to was there's evidence that seems to

784
00:42:59,060 --> 00:42:55,260
suggest pretty clearly that he was

785
00:43:02,930 --> 00:42:59,070
recruited to be an intelligence asset a

786
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:02,940
spy when he was over at in Otsuki Japan

787
00:43:17,350 --> 00:43:11,090
cover story that he was a screw-up and

788
00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:17,360
that he was you know was interested in

789
00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:19,830
Marxist ideology and all this was

790
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:21,870
basically a cover i think his role there

791
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:25,760
Datsyuk or at el toro where he met

792
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:28,500
Thornleigh was basically to infiltrate

793
00:43:34,070 --> 00:43:31,170
the troops there and find out if anybody

794
00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:34,080
was a security risks and carry

795
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:36,150
Thornleigh I'm sure he raised some flags

796
00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:38,310
this was not the wall the crazy

797
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:41,640
character he would that once again this

798
00:43:46,820 --> 00:43:44,880
allowed to have discussions on all sort

799
00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:46,830
of different topics and was an avowed

800
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:49,190
atheist and all of this so I think

801
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:51,690
Oswald's rolled back then was probably

802
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:54,570
just being a spy for the

803
00:44:01,790 --> 00:43:58,920
brass and then you know not long after

804
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:01,800
he defected to Russia which a lot of

805
00:44:11,110 --> 00:44:04,200
people suspect he was on a spy mission

806
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:11,120
when he was over there mmm now when you

807
00:44:18,410 --> 00:44:15,060
when you started looking into this this

808
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:18,420
idea for your new book discordian ism

809
00:44:23,810 --> 00:44:22,110
how was it what brought you in what was

810
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:23,820
the doorway that you went into that

811
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:26,700
subject matter how did you get on into

812
00:44:31,820 --> 00:44:29,730
it we still haven't really discussed the

813
00:44:34,340 --> 00:44:31,830
score d anism indent it really so that's

814
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,350
true too I did notice one thing and I

815
00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:37,200
was reading about it today and I noticed

816
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:38,550
one thing that sounded really

817
00:44:44,260 --> 00:44:41,520
interesting and I totally agreed with it

818
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:44,270
and it thought of it many times myself

819
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:49,740
about how our reality is only our

820
00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:53,370
reality because that's what how we've

821
00:44:59,780 --> 00:44:56,310
been programmed we see reality as we've

822
00:45:01,940 --> 00:44:59,790
been taught as we've been programmed and

823
00:45:03,590 --> 00:45:01,950
if we were programmed in a different way

824
00:45:05,330 --> 00:45:03,600
if we even grew up in a different

825
00:45:07,940 --> 00:45:05,340
location or even in a different

826
00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:07,950
different ethnic group we would think

827
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:09,990
differently our reality would be

828
00:45:17,020 --> 00:45:13,710
something different and to me that's

829
00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:17,030
been sort of at the heart of the

830
00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:20,430
problems in society is that we don't

831
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:24,180
have the ability to see the other

832
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:26,670
person's point of view we don't have the

833
00:45:32,990 --> 00:45:29,250
ability to step out of ourselves and put

834
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:33,000
ourselves empathetically in their

835
00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:36,810
position and say that okay I understand

836
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:39,840
why this is why he thinks this way and

837
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:41,970
now I have to understand why I think the

838
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:45,210
way that I do mm-hmm and to me that's

839
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:47,610
that's very basic and that's a good

840
00:45:53,540 --> 00:45:50,880
thing now when I started reading further

841
00:45:55,700 --> 00:45:53,550
and people were assigning themselves

842
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:55,710
these bizarre names and things like that

843
00:46:00,980 --> 00:45:58,920
I thought okay what's this all about and

844
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:00,990
the more it started sounding like some

845
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:03,690
kind of bizarre you know secret society

846
00:46:08,450 --> 00:46:06,570
thing so can you enlighten us a little

847
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:08,460
bit more oh

848
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:18,390
on the philosophy yeah um so I'll well

849
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:20,250
how do I get started on this and I'll

850
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:24,210
get into the philosophy was I that I was

851
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:26,220
initially interested in cary Thornleigh

852
00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:27,510
because i had heard about him in the

853
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:31,160
conspiracy world back in the day and

854
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:35,280
it's kind of crazy character who was

855
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:37,200
seem to be involved in all kinds of

856
00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:41,310
stuff not only knew Oswald was somehow

857
00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:43,950
connected the garrison investigation but

858
00:46:50,839 --> 00:46:47,790
he was also founded discordian ism this

859
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:50,849
quote-unquote spoof religion and so that

860
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:53,250
research led to the first book the

861
00:47:02,780 --> 00:46:56,250
prankster and the prankster and the

862
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:02,790
conspiracy so you know thornley got out

863
00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:07,020
of the Marines in sixty or so and ended

864
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:09,270
up on the french quarter of new orleans

865
00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:13,650
and that's where he got or that's where

866
00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:15,240
kind of some of the discordian

867
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:17,369
activities ramped up his friend Greg

868
00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:20,310
Hill the guy co-founded scored Ian ism

869
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:24,599
with him moved with Thornleigh to New

870
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:27,359
Orleans this is gnarly 61 and so they

871
00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:30,930
started working on this spoof philosophy

872
00:47:38,109 --> 00:47:33,990
or religion which basically is kind of

873
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:38,119
just I mean it has a lot of different

874
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:42,770
purposes you know one scene a way to

875
00:47:48,290 --> 00:47:46,650
poke fun at organized religion for sure

876
00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:48,300
that was one of the reasons they got

877
00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:52,680
into discordian ism and also you know

878
00:48:00,380 --> 00:47:57,510
just to comment on the culture of the

879
00:48:03,410 --> 00:48:00,390
period and so they adopted their own

880
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:03,420
discordian names such as Greg Hill the

881
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:06,810
founder and the architect of the Bible

882
00:48:11,210 --> 00:48:09,119
of discordian principia discordia he was

883
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:11,220
now the clips the younger and Carrie

884
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:14,220
Thornleigh was born Omar Khayyam right

885
00:48:18,740 --> 00:48:16,530
Ravenhurst and they met other people in

886
00:48:21,020 --> 00:48:18,750
New Orleans during that period a guy

887
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:21,030
named Roger Levin who adopted the name

888
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:21,850
Fang the

889
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:25,090
washed and sit so they started

890
00:48:34,050 --> 00:48:28,210
developing this quote-unquote spoof

891
00:48:37,050 --> 00:48:34,060
religion and published in around 65 the

892
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,060
first edition of principia discordia or

893
00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:39,520
how the west was lost in this title and

894
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:42,430
the legend was that there was only five

895
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:45,520
copies published most of which were lost

896
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:49,450
in the years to follow principia

897
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:54,400
discordia changed and subsequent

898
00:49:02,370 --> 00:48:58,090
editions kind of morphed over time by so

899
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:02,380
by 1969 it had become more of an art

900
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:04,510
project shared between a bunch of people

901
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:07,450
who correspond it in the mail and sent

902
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:09,790
things back and forth so if you look at

903
00:49:14,370 --> 00:49:12,370
the first edition which is reproduced in

904
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:14,380
my book a story the score tiat kind of

905
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:17,560
ways out the structure of the religion

906
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:19,450
and all this on and on all this

907
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:23,110
technical stuff the later editions of

908
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:25,300
principia discordia look more like a

909
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:27,610
psychedelic collage with a bunch of

910
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:30,970
aphorisms and psychedelic statements and

911
00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:34,750
so changed over a period of time and

912
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,420
that's the addition most folks are

913
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:39,760
familiar with these days is the fourth

914
00:49:43,980 --> 00:49:41,890
edition of the principia discordia and

915
00:49:46,260 --> 00:49:43,990
all the way different writers and

916
00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:46,270
artists got involved such as Robert

917
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:48,220
Anton Wilson who you may be familiar

918
00:49:54,930 --> 00:49:51,310
with he was known as Mordecai the foul

919
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:54,940
in the discordian society and so the

920
00:50:02,010 --> 00:49:57,370
principia discordia and Robert Anton

921
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:02,020
Wilson relationship with like Kerry

922
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:04,750
Thornleigh and Greg Hill influenced the

923
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:09,490
illuminatus trilogy which you know as a

924
00:50:15,210 --> 00:50:13,330
became pretty huge in the counterculture

925
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:15,220
in the late 70s and throughout the

926
00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:17,170
illuminatus trilogy which if you're not

927
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:20,020
familiar with it it's this crazy sci fi

928
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:24,100
conspiracy book that perceptions of

929
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:27,130
reality is constantly shifting and point

930
00:50:33,150 --> 00:50:29,610
of view in the book and it talks about

931
00:50:35,010 --> 00:50:33,160
the grand conspiracy with the variant

932
00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:35,020
Illuminati on and on

933
00:50:40,860 --> 00:50:39,070
what a lot of this stuff came material

934
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:40,870
for illuminatus came out of his

935
00:50:47,550 --> 00:50:43,450
interactions with grey killin Kerry

936
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:47,560
Thornleigh in the late 60s and in fact

937
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:50,650
the first book in the illuminatus

938
00:51:00,690 --> 00:50:53,890
trilogy is dedicated to carry Thornleigh

939
00:51:08,130 --> 00:51:00,700
Creek Hill entry you will you ask about

940
00:51:10,140 --> 00:51:08,140
the Illuminati yeah okay so in that get

941
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,150
the white ties know wasn't it Robert

942
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:12,160
Anton Wilson that declared himself the

943
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:14,650
the head of the Illuminati or something

944
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:17,680
like that no he declared himself the toe

945
00:51:23,790 --> 00:51:21,610
of the Illuminati oh that's a little

946
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:23,800
joke there but that's when he shared

947
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:25,810
with me because I asked him I ever

948
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:27,850
viewed him for my book the prankster the

949
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:32,290
conspiracy years ago and I asked Bob are

950
00:51:35,850 --> 00:51:34,090
you is it true that you're really the

951
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:35,860
head of the Illuminati and he said

952
00:51:41,310 --> 00:51:39,430
knowing the toe was quite the answer I

953
00:51:43,620 --> 00:51:41,320
was looking for but I asked him well

954
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,630
anyway since you're hooked up with the

955
00:51:49,020 --> 00:51:45,760
Illuminati can you point me a high

956
00:51:52,020 --> 00:51:49,030
priest in the Bavarian Illuminati and he

957
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,030
did so so there you go i'm also with the

958
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:54,180
Illuminati no there was there was

959
00:52:02,040 --> 00:51:58,630
because of illuminatus the trilogy gets

960
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:02,050
pretty deep into the Bavarian Illuminati

961
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:05,680
and Wilson and his co-author Robert che

962
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:07,900
had a lot of knowledge about the

963
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:10,140
Illuminati and so people began

964
00:52:17,150 --> 00:52:13,570
suspecting as xena people are ought to

965
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:17,160
do in world of conspiracy theory that

966
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:19,690
Wilson is a part of the Illuminati

967
00:52:26,340 --> 00:52:23,710
because Wilson had studied alternative

968
00:52:32,610 --> 00:52:26,350
religions and got involved in all kinds

969
00:52:35,790 --> 00:52:32,620
of esoteric sex and orders and just

970
00:52:38,310 --> 00:52:35,800
basically to research about all these

971
00:52:41,130 --> 00:52:38,320
different secret societies and such so

972
00:52:43,380 --> 00:52:41,140
the rumor started you know that he was

973
00:52:46,650 --> 00:52:43,390
perhaps the head of the Illuminati of

974
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:46,660
course he'd never deny it well of course

975
00:52:50,430 --> 00:52:47,770
not

976
00:52:54,020 --> 00:52:50,440
but a lot of this interest in the

977
00:52:56,730 --> 00:52:54,030
Illuminati's goes back to the garrison

978
00:52:59,490 --> 00:52:56,740
investigation believe it or not which

979
00:53:03,120 --> 00:52:59,500
you know the Oliver Stone movie JFK was

980
00:53:06,090 --> 00:53:03,130
all about and so you know we talked a

981
00:53:11,370 --> 00:53:06,100
little about Kerry Thornleigh in Oswald

982
00:53:15,690 --> 00:53:11,380
and in 1967 you know garrison started

983
00:53:19,050 --> 00:53:15,700
his investigation and that during the

984
00:53:20,850 --> 00:53:19,060
course of that investigation he targeted

985
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:20,860
different individuals and one of them

986
00:53:25,950 --> 00:53:23,530
was Kerry Thornleigh claiming that Kerry

987
00:53:29,610 --> 00:53:25,960
Thornleigh also the co-founder of

988
00:53:32,970 --> 00:53:29,620
discordian ISM was part of a the JFK

989
00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:32,980
assassination conspiracy that he was

990
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:35,710
perhaps performed the role as one of the

991
00:53:44,070 --> 00:53:39,610
notorious Oswald doubles that he written

992
00:53:49,110 --> 00:53:44,080
his book Oswald that came out in 65 as a

993
00:53:51,590 --> 00:53:49,120
way to set up Oswald to portray him as

994
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:51,600
you know alone that commie sympa

995
00:53:56,340 --> 00:53:54,550
Thornleigh had testified before the

996
00:53:59,280 --> 00:53:56,350
Warren Commission where he talked about

997
00:54:03,330 --> 00:53:59,290
his knowledge of Oswald and these type

998
00:54:05,730 --> 00:54:03,340
of things so Gareth garrison theorized

999
00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:05,740
that Thornleigh was in on the conspiracy

1000
00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:08,440
then that you know he lived in New

1001
00:54:13,530 --> 00:54:10,390
Orleans during that relevant period

1002
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:13,540
where David Ferrie and guy banister and

1003
00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:17,460
all those guys were involved there so

1004
00:54:22,140 --> 00:54:20,470
that was kind of a historic keeps

1005
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:22,150
getting more where to course Storm Lee

1006
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:24,310
denied all of this I get more into all

1007
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:27,130
this my latest one of my latest book

1008
00:54:31,410 --> 00:54:29,830
caught in the crossfire but in a way

1009
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:31,420
during the course of all this you know

1010
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:33,130
garrison have a lot of different

1011
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:36,190
independent investigators showing up

1012
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:38,290
their feet and different information one

1013
00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:41,640
of them was a guy named album Chapman

1014
00:54:47,340 --> 00:54:45,160
who part of his theory was that the

1015
00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:47,350
Bavarian Illuminati was somehow involved

1016
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:50,020
in the JFK assassination this type of

1017
00:54:56,100 --> 00:54:52,450
thinking was kind of prevalent during

1018
00:55:00,460 --> 00:54:56,110
that period with john birch society that

1019
00:55:03,339 --> 00:55:00,470
somehow like Sirhan Sirhan for instance

1020
00:55:06,310 --> 00:55:03,349
corrupted by Madame Blavatsky and

1021
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:06,320
theosophy and that trace back to be

1022
00:55:10,930 --> 00:55:08,930
Illuminati so these theories were

1023
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:10,940
bouncing around and Carrie Thornleigh

1024
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:13,930
heard this that the Bavarian Illuminati

1025
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:16,490
this guy Ellen chattin about the

1026
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:18,970
Bavarian Illuminati was in on JFK

1027
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:22,609
assassination formerly thought was

1028
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:25,490
hilarious so to kind of screw around

1029
00:55:32,349 --> 00:55:29,170
with garrison and his investigators

1030
00:55:34,780 --> 00:55:32,359
Thornleigh in cahoots with Robert Anton

1031
00:55:38,290 --> 00:55:34,790
Wilson a few others started they came up

1032
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,300
with their kind of a phony stationery

1033
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:40,640
for the Bavarian Illuminati informally

1034
00:55:46,750 --> 00:55:43,130
used his name of lamont i am leaving

1035
00:55:48,910 --> 00:55:46,760
host consent garrison letters and John

1036
00:55:51,310 --> 00:55:48,920
Birch Society letters and other people

1037
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:51,320
letter saying yes we are with their and

1038
00:55:55,450 --> 00:55:53,570
Illuminati but we haven't we didn't come

1039
00:55:57,970 --> 00:55:55,460
here to we're not involved with the

1040
00:56:00,760 --> 00:55:57,980
assassinations come here to illuminate

1041
00:56:04,780 --> 00:56:00,770
you and start off something up these

1042
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:04,790
fake letters you know and so that's kind

1043
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:08,930
of how part of the mythos with the

1044
00:56:14,290 --> 00:56:11,359
Illuminati help spread during that

1045
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:14,300
period at the same time Robert Anton

1046
00:56:20,530 --> 00:56:16,250
Wilson was working as an editor at

1047
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:20,540
playboy for the Playboy forum both he

1048
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:24,770
and Bob shade is co-writing illuminatus

1049
00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:28,570
trilogy we're working at the Playboy and

1050
00:56:35,230 --> 00:56:31,510
Wilson was editing the Playboy forum and

1051
00:56:36,940 --> 00:56:35,240
that was formed that dealt with civil

1052
00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:36,950
liberty issues and these type of things

1053
00:56:42,339 --> 00:56:40,430
and he was kind of a question-and-answer

1054
00:56:46,060 --> 00:56:42,349
format he'd answer different questions

1055
00:56:47,950 --> 00:56:46,070
and they he also got letters that didn't

1056
00:56:50,530 --> 00:56:47,960
make it into the plate we formed because

1057
00:56:52,839 --> 00:56:50,540
they were so far out about conspiracies

1058
00:56:54,460 --> 00:56:52,849
and these type of things he collected

1059
00:57:01,839 --> 00:56:54,470
these a lot of that material was used

1060
00:57:06,970 --> 00:57:01,849
for the illuminatus trilogy the in hmm

1061
00:57:08,110 --> 00:57:06,980
so in April 69 and the Playboy forum a

1062
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:08,120
letter

1063
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:11,330
was in there or a question somebody was

1064
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:15,110
writing in asking if all the this person

1065
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:16,990
writing the letter who was actually

1066
00:57:22,750 --> 00:57:19,190
Wilson pretending to be this person

1067
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:22,760
writing the letter was asking about all

1068
00:57:28,810 --> 00:57:24,890
the political assassinations and that

1069
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:28,820
some old strange man had told him that

1070
00:57:35,110 --> 00:57:31,850
the Illuminati were behind all the

1071
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:35,120
political assassinations and Wilson

1072
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:37,450
answered the letter that appeared in

1073
00:57:44,550 --> 00:57:40,850
Playboy at that time and it seemed to

1074
00:57:47,620 --> 00:57:44,560
help push forward this mythos of the

1075
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:47,630
Bavarian Illuminati and Wilson later

1076
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:50,090
wrote that he felt they kind of pushed a

1077
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:51,770
magic button and all the sudden you

1078
00:57:56,620 --> 00:57:54,530
started hearing more stories about the

1079
00:57:59,350 --> 00:57:56,630
Illuminati from both sides of the

1080
00:58:04,150 --> 00:57:59,360
political spectrum from the religious

1081
00:58:08,620 --> 00:58:04,160
right to the liberal left all the sudden

1082
00:58:11,020 --> 00:58:08,630
seemed to enter the conversation of the

1083
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:11,030
popular consciousness you know people

1084
00:58:16,750 --> 00:58:14,480
started bringing up the specter of the

1085
00:58:19,570 --> 00:58:16,760
Illuminati which they fleshed out even

1086
00:58:22,510 --> 00:58:19,580
more in the illuminatus trilogy of

1087
00:58:25,210 --> 00:58:22,520
course nowadays the Illuminati is

1088
00:58:28,270 --> 00:58:25,220
everywhere so in one way or another

1089
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:28,280
Wilson and Shay had a big hand in

1090
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,130
pushing forward this mythology about the

1091
00:58:37,420 --> 00:58:33,440
Illuminati Illuminati which is not to

1092
00:58:40,330 --> 00:58:37,430
say that they don't exist or having

1093
00:58:42,970 --> 00:58:40,340
exist or haven't done bad things whoever

1094
00:58:44,860 --> 00:58:42,980
they may be over the years so that's

1095
00:58:47,530 --> 00:58:44,870
kind of the background on how the

1096
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:47,540
Discordians got involved with the

1097
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:51,290
Bavarian Illuminati that's a wild that's

1098
00:58:56,290 --> 00:58:53,210
really weld I mean there's seems to be

1099
00:58:59,500 --> 00:58:56,300
such a trickster in prankster element to

1100
00:59:01,870 --> 00:58:59,510
the whole thing oh well part of it you

1101
00:59:03,850 --> 00:59:01,880
know the discordian philosophy was to

1102
00:59:07,870 --> 00:59:03,860
shake people out of their certain

1103
00:59:11,380 --> 00:59:07,880
paradigm mashina thinking and rigid with

1104
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:11,390
rigid thinking you know and to kind of

1105
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:13,490
blow those away and party a part of that

1106
00:59:19,780 --> 00:59:16,570
is adopting different these different

1107
00:59:22,330 --> 00:59:19,790
personalities and sending out these

1108
00:59:24,490 --> 00:59:22,340
wacky letters for instance to the John

1109
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:24,500
Birch Society and folks of that nature

1110
00:59:34,450 --> 00:59:27,470
that one you know they were humorous

1111
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:34,460
letters but also to perhaps change it

1112
00:59:40,660 --> 00:59:37,490
change people's views on these subjects

1113
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:40,670
or you know maybe shake things up a bit

1114
00:59:45,550 --> 00:59:43,760
yeah yeah we're going to talk a little

1115
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:45,560
bit more about it after this next break

1116
00:59:51,070 --> 00:59:48,410
hope you'll hang in there with us we're

1117
00:59:54,130 --> 00:59:51,080
talking to Adam go rightly we're talking

1118
00:59:55,870 --> 00:59:54,140
about discordian ISM and I'll cult in

1119
00:59:58,450 --> 00:59:55,880
the Illuminati and all that really

1120
01:00:26,600 --> 00:59:58,460
really good dark stuff so hang in there

1121
01:00:32,430 --> 01:00:30,000
hello everyone Laurieann Fenton here

1122
01:00:35,550 --> 01:00:32,440
hosted the California MUFON radio show

1123
01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:35,560
asking if you'd like special access to

1124
01:00:42,090 --> 01:00:38,800
exclusive and amazing information about

1125
01:00:45,390 --> 01:00:42,100
UFOs the paranormal and all things

1126
01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:45,400
unexplained if you're nodding yes then

1127
01:00:50,820 --> 01:00:49,030
join I rn's insider club as an insider

1128
01:00:53,790 --> 01:00:50,830
club member you'll get an all-access

1129
01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:53,800
pass to premier inception radio network

1130
01:00:58,740 --> 01:00:56,200
content for only four dollars and

1131
01:01:02,580 --> 01:00:58,750
ninety-nine cents a month this includes

1132
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:02,590
live UFO and paranormal conferences live

1133
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:06,250
streaming UFO sky watches exclusive irn

1134
01:01:12,660 --> 01:01:08,890
radio and TV productions and of course

1135
01:01:14,940 --> 01:01:12,670
paying radio with MJ and Ken Storch so

1136
01:01:18,090 --> 01:01:14,950
don't wait any longer visit inception

1137
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,100
radio network calm and click on member

1138
01:01:25,830 --> 01:01:21,220
login to join I rn's and cider club and

1139
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:25,840
get your VIP access today are you a fan

1140
01:01:29,940 --> 01:01:28,270
of inception radio network do you reckon

1141
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:29,950
it's the best alternative talk radio

1142
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:32,110
station on the planet well if you do

1143
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:34,470
head to facebook.com forward slash

1144
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:37,230
inception radio network like the page

1145
01:01:43,530 --> 01:01:39,910
tell your friends spread the word and

1146
01:01:48,700 --> 01:01:46,840
you have a smartphone if so conception

1147
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:48,710
radio network is the best out for you

1148
01:01:54,310 --> 01:01:52,250
available itunes android samsung and

1149
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:54,320
most of the rap storms just search

1150
01:01:59,680 --> 01:01:57,050
inception radio network with the app you

1151
01:02:02,440 --> 01:01:59,690
can listen live check out podcast recent

1152
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:02,450
and past showed you our videos see what

1153
01:02:06,940 --> 01:02:04,400
shows are coming up who the guests are

1154
01:02:09,310 --> 01:02:06,950
and via the chat room send live

1155
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:09,320
questions to those guests you know it

1156
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:11,330
makes sense check your App Store now

1157
01:02:21,790 --> 01:02:19,610
inception radio network sees it hey I RN

1158
01:02:24,130 --> 01:02:21,800
listeners make sure you tune in to night

1159
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:24,140
vision radio with Renee Barnett where

1160
01:02:28,450 --> 01:02:25,850
they will be exposing the truth one

1161
01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:28,460
secret at a time when Thursdays every

1162
01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:31,790
Thursday 1030pm eastern 730 p.m. pacific

1163
01:02:40,330 --> 01:02:37,670
where right ear I around hello Irene

1164
01:02:42,310 --> 01:02:40,340
listeners this is MJ say hello and

1165
01:02:45,940 --> 01:02:42,320
sharing boss and secret I discovered

1166
01:02:47,860 --> 01:02:45,950
it's called Green lodge calm fresh raw

1167
01:02:50,740 --> 01:02:47,870
organic ingredients are used to create

1168
01:02:52,750 --> 01:02:50,750
all their products they are made in very

1169
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:52,760
small batches to ensure quality and

1170
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:56,090
freshness and made in the USA each

1171
01:02:59,000 --> 01:02:57,690
product is created

1172
01:03:01,400 --> 01:02:59,010
here and with the finest organic

1173
01:03:04,490 --> 01:03:01,410
ingredients there are no preservatives

1174
01:03:08,860 --> 01:03:04,500
dies or chemicals in any product stop by

1175
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:08,870
dream lodge and laughs that's d r ii am

1176
01:04:02,210 --> 01:03:22,520
you're locked into inception radio

1177
01:04:07,109 --> 01:04:04,620
you're listening to night vision radio

1178
01:04:09,299 --> 01:04:07,119
I'm your host Renee Barnett our guest

1179
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:09,309
tonight is Adam go rightly he's a

1180
01:04:14,190 --> 01:04:11,440
historian and a journalist and an author

1181
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:14,200
we've been talking about secret

1182
01:04:22,770 --> 01:04:18,569
societies and the occult his latest book

1183
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:22,780
called historia discordia about

1184
01:04:29,339 --> 01:04:26,410
discordian ism a strange philosophy or

1185
01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:29,349
religion that sprang up in the 50s now

1186
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:31,510
you talked about it being like a hoax or

1187
01:04:39,059 --> 01:04:34,390
fake religion was there a point where

1188
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:39,069
they got serious about it well because

1189
01:04:44,089 --> 01:04:41,770
of all the craziness that entered Kerry

1190
01:04:47,010 --> 01:04:44,099
Thornleigh's life you know the garrison

1191
01:04:50,940 --> 01:04:47,020
investigation and what happened

1192
01:04:54,539 --> 01:04:50,950
afterwards he Thornleigh felt at least

1193
01:04:56,789 --> 01:04:54,549
that he had by you know starting this

1194
01:04:59,299 --> 01:04:56,799
what he thought was a spoof religion

1195
01:05:03,569 --> 01:04:59,309
dedicated to the goddess of confusion

1196
01:05:06,089 --> 01:05:03,579
eros that eventually you know all this

1197
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:06,099
chaos and craziness that came into his

1198
01:05:13,049 --> 01:05:09,490
life he might have unwittingly opened

1199
01:05:16,620 --> 01:05:13,059
himself up to buy all of this worship of

1200
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:16,630
Eros and there was another thing that

1201
01:05:21,059 --> 01:05:18,730
was interesting that it ended up being a

1202
01:05:23,279 --> 01:05:21,069
goddess based religion and philosophy

1203
01:05:26,430 --> 01:05:23,289
which seems like that always pops up

1204
01:05:28,890 --> 01:05:26,440
when you're talking about secret

1205
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:28,900
societies in the Illuminati and in

1206
01:05:33,359 --> 01:05:31,119
groups like the Knights Templar and

1207
01:05:36,089 --> 01:05:33,369
others it seems like that that was sort

1208
01:05:39,620 --> 01:05:36,099
of the big secret and even with some of

1209
01:05:43,950 --> 01:05:39,630
the founding fathers of our country that

1210
01:05:47,029 --> 01:05:43,960
secretly there was some interest in the

1211
01:05:49,950 --> 01:05:47,039
feminine or the you know feminine God

1212
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:49,960
hmm right but it sounds like they almost

1213
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:52,930
got into the feminine idea as an

1214
01:05:58,109 --> 01:05:56,170
accident when you know you said they

1215
01:06:01,019 --> 01:05:58,119
just brought up the idea of oh let's

1216
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:01,029
create a church based on chaos and you

1217
01:06:07,470 --> 01:06:04,569
know in and the one guy said well

1218
01:06:09,269 --> 01:06:07,480
there's already a deity mirrors the

1219
01:06:12,269 --> 01:06:09,279
goddess of chaos and so it seemed like

1220
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:12,279
it was almost accidental but maybe some

1221
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:13,250
things

1222
01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:16,190
seem accidental but you know that's just

1223
01:06:22,180 --> 01:06:19,630
part of the way things occur possibly

1224
01:06:28,270 --> 01:06:22,190
yeah that's the way this crazy universe

1225
01:06:31,150 --> 01:06:28,280
works sometimes it seems to but so they

1226
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:31,160
got all involved you know or Thornleigh

1227
01:06:35,170 --> 01:06:33,200
got all involved in this Kennedy

1228
01:06:37,780 --> 01:06:35,180
assassination investigation with Jim

1229
01:06:40,930 --> 01:06:37,790
Garrison and all that so things kind of

1230
01:06:44,530 --> 01:06:40,940
did they kind of sit there for a while

1231
01:06:50,020 --> 01:06:44,540
did did the ideas grow did were people

1232
01:06:55,170 --> 01:06:50,030
joining in how was it happening and did

1233
01:06:57,730 --> 01:06:55,180
people know about this at the time um

1234
01:07:01,690 --> 01:06:57,740
let me give give you a little background

1235
01:07:03,940 --> 01:07:01,700
and one of your folks in chat asked

1236
01:07:05,770 --> 01:07:03,950
about MK ULTRA program that's right

1237
01:07:08,350 --> 01:07:05,780
wanted to know if you might have been

1238
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:08,360
used by or involved somehow in MK MK

1239
01:07:15,250 --> 01:07:10,970
ULTRA I think I hope they're referring

1240
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:15,260
to carry Thornleigh and well I think

1241
01:07:19,900 --> 01:07:18,290
they were referring to you but uh well

1242
01:07:21,700 --> 01:07:19,910
there is a there is an MK ULTRA

1243
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:21,710
connection here right but it's not you

1244
01:07:28,750 --> 01:07:25,210
it's cari Thornleigh right right and so

1245
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:28,760
we talked about he had moved to New

1246
01:07:36,430 --> 01:07:32,090
Orleans in the early 60s that's kind of

1247
01:07:38,740 --> 01:07:36,440
pivotal to the story because Thornleigh

1248
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:38,750
had a you know he was a budding writer

1249
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:42,170
so he had this interest in meeting the

1250
01:07:49,060 --> 01:07:44,810
colorful characters there in New Orleans

1251
01:07:51,220 --> 01:07:49,070
and developing material for books and so

1252
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:51,230
yeah he had this you know there was a

1253
01:07:57,370 --> 01:07:54,050
bohemian element there but he also had

1254
01:07:59,830 --> 01:07:57,380
the underworld element and people that

1255
01:08:03,640 --> 01:07:59,840
work in intelligence agencies perhaps

1256
01:08:05,740 --> 01:08:03,650
and so he met a couple of curious

1257
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:05,750
characters who went by the name of Gary

1258
01:08:11,860 --> 01:08:08,810
Kirsten and slim Brooks and he engaged

1259
01:08:13,630 --> 01:08:11,870
them in conversations much like he had

1260
01:08:16,590 --> 01:08:13,640
talked to house walled about all kinds

1261
01:08:20,559 --> 01:08:16,600
of things under the Sun and at one point

1262
01:08:22,570 --> 01:08:20,569
they had a theoretical discussion about

1263
01:08:25,900 --> 01:08:22,580
how to kill a president and in

1264
01:08:27,610 --> 01:08:25,910
particular oh my JFK

1265
01:08:34,260 --> 01:08:27,620
and Thornleigh at the time thought this

1266
01:08:37,930 --> 01:08:34,270
was just the basically you know a morbid

1267
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:37,940
theoretical intellectual exercise but

1268
01:08:44,740 --> 01:08:41,570
later these words he these conversations

1269
01:08:47,350 --> 01:08:44,750
would come back to haunt him so we move

1270
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:47,360
forward in time we're getting to the

1271
01:08:56,740 --> 01:08:53,570
MKULTRA stuff here thornley had served

1272
01:08:59,740 --> 01:08:56,750
with Oswald osugi airbase I talked about

1273
01:09:02,290 --> 01:08:59,750
that before and it was revealed like in

1274
01:09:06,270 --> 01:09:02,300
the mid 80s there was an exposé

1275
01:09:09,630 --> 01:09:06,280
enrollees stone that otsuki was the

1276
01:09:12,310 --> 01:09:09,640
really the main installation for the CIA

1277
01:09:14,740 --> 01:09:12,320
overseas one of the main critical

1278
01:09:18,010 --> 01:09:14,750
installations and during the MKULTRA

1279
01:09:21,310 --> 01:09:18,020
period that's where they stored all the

1280
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:21,320
LSD and they were testing on the troops

1281
01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:25,010
you know there during that period the

1282
01:09:30,370 --> 01:09:27,350
other main storehouse for LSD was at

1283
01:09:33,460 --> 01:09:30,380
manila and the Philippines were the room

1284
01:09:35,890 --> 01:09:33,470
carry Thornleigh also served so keep

1285
01:09:38,620 --> 01:09:35,900
keep that off to the side here for a

1286
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:38,630
minute so in the early 70s Thornleigh

1287
01:09:44,170 --> 01:09:40,640
was in New York with his buddy Greg Hill

1288
01:09:49,090 --> 01:09:44,180
once again where he came across he was

1289
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:49,100
at a concert there and some park

1290
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:53,210
somewhere and he came across a magazine

1291
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:55,010
called the hipster times which the

1292
01:10:00,340 --> 01:09:58,130
hippies put out and in in this magazine

1293
01:10:02,140 --> 01:10:00,350
there was an article about the three

1294
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:02,150
tramps you know that they picked up in

1295
01:10:08,950 --> 01:10:05,290
daley plaza sure heard about those guys

1296
01:10:12,550 --> 01:10:08,960
and the author of this article AJ Weber

1297
01:10:15,130 --> 01:10:12,560
Minh proposed the theory that one of

1298
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:15,140
those tramps was a Howard hunt the

1299
01:10:21,730 --> 01:10:19,130
famous CIA agent a mini a connected to

1300
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:21,740
the JFK assassination and whoever Minh

1301
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:23,360
later came out with a book called coup

1302
01:10:28,690 --> 01:10:25,970
d'etat America which had these acetate

1303
01:10:31,210 --> 01:10:28,700
photo overlays she could take a V Howard

1304
01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:31,220
hunt put it over the old man and

1305
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:34,310
Daley Plaza matched up exactly anyway

1306
01:10:38,570 --> 01:10:36,260
when Thornleigh saw this material he

1307
01:10:40,340 --> 01:10:38,580
went oh crap

1308
01:10:43,820 --> 01:10:40,350
that's the same guy had those

1309
01:10:47,900 --> 01:10:43,830
conversations with in New Orleans in the

1310
01:10:50,750 --> 01:10:47,910
early 60s about killing JFK he thought

1311
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:50,760
and he began to suspect that he was

1312
01:10:55,070 --> 01:10:52,890
being set up at that time perhaps in the

1313
01:10:58,400 --> 01:10:55,080
same way that Oswald might have been set

1314
01:11:00,860 --> 01:10:58,410
up and after he was exposed to this

1315
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:00,870
material like a floodgate of memories

1316
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:03,300
started opening up to him and he had all

1317
01:11:12,100 --> 01:11:08,730
these memories of things he either had

1318
01:11:15,050 --> 01:11:12,110
amnesia or been my control or something

1319
01:11:17,410 --> 01:11:15,060
about his things that had gone in New

1320
01:11:20,540 --> 01:11:17,420
Orleans related to the JFK assassination

1321
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:20,550
and he began to suspect during this

1322
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:22,170
period that he'd been a victim of

1323
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:25,770
MKULTRA mind control perhaps it had been

1324
01:11:31,130 --> 01:11:28,770
initiated when he was at su DIA others

1325
01:11:33,530 --> 01:11:31,140
have made the same claim for Oswald

1326
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:33,540
there was some curious stuff stories

1327
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:37,770
about Oswald related to MK ULTRA and LSD

1328
01:11:43,690 --> 01:11:40,410
and so he suspected that he and Oswald

1329
01:11:46,940 --> 01:11:43,700
might have been used as both as I

1330
01:11:49,610 --> 01:11:46,950
patsies Oswald was used as a patsy in

1331
01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:49,620
the JFK assassination presumably and

1332
01:11:55,580 --> 01:11:53,400
formally suspected he might have was

1333
01:11:58,850 --> 01:11:55,590
going to be used as a fallback patsy if

1334
01:12:02,240 --> 01:11:58,860
the Oswald said it hadn't gone the way

1335
01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:02,250
it did and made him what made him feel

1336
01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:06,600
that he had been used by MK ULTRA did he

1337
01:12:15,130 --> 01:12:10,260
feel like he'd been dosed with acid did

1338
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,140
he what were the signs that he felt like

1339
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:17,760
well was it just because the way things

1340
01:12:22,580 --> 01:12:20,250
were coming down he just suspected that

1341
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:22,590
well all these coincidence started

1342
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:24,810
coming up where he had these memories he

1343
01:12:30,050 --> 01:12:27,330
remembered the meeting Clay Shaw and gai

1344
01:12:33,230 --> 01:12:30,060
pan astir and all these guys and was

1345
01:12:35,810 --> 01:12:33,240
like and in the years to follow he

1346
01:12:39,380 --> 01:12:35,820
became really a paranoid schizophrenic

1347
01:12:41,930 --> 01:12:39,390
by the mid 70s and felt everybody was in

1348
01:12:44,750 --> 01:12:41,940
on the conspiracy including even he

1349
01:12:48,919 --> 01:12:44,760
suspected it one point Robert own Anton

1350
01:12:51,229 --> 01:12:48,929
Wilson was a CIA handler so what

1351
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:51,239
cause this was he the actually the

1352
01:12:59,179 --> 01:12:56,159
victim of hmm MK ULTRA operations drove

1353
01:13:01,009 --> 01:12:59,189
him bonkers or you know what came first

1354
01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:01,019
the chicken or the egg that what is

1355
01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:05,550
right interesting is that he Howard hunt

1356
01:13:11,330 --> 01:13:08,400
once again turns out that he was

1357
01:13:16,270 --> 01:13:11,340
stationed in Otsuki during the same

1358
01:13:20,379 --> 01:13:16,280
period Oswald normally were there oh wow

1359
01:13:25,009 --> 01:13:20,389
that Thornleigh became your classic

1360
01:13:28,850 --> 01:13:25,019
clinical paranoid schizophrenic but he

1361
01:13:30,799 --> 01:13:28,860
also you know had all the different

1362
01:13:34,189 --> 01:13:30,809
elements when people are talking about

1363
01:13:36,199 --> 01:13:34,199
MKULTRA mind control victims normally

1364
01:13:39,709 --> 01:13:36,209
was experience all that same stuff

1365
01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:39,719
voices in his head he was convinced at

1366
01:13:45,410 --> 01:13:41,369
one time that there was some kind of

1367
01:13:49,790 --> 01:13:45,420
implant transmitter that had been

1368
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:49,800
inserted in his certain into his brain

1369
01:13:56,419 --> 01:13:53,130
somehow or some so he all this stuff was

1370
01:13:59,569 --> 01:13:56,429
going on and everywhere he went you know

1371
01:14:03,229 --> 01:13:59,579
during a certain purity felt he was

1372
01:14:05,239 --> 01:14:03,239
being followed and all related to his

1373
01:14:07,759 --> 01:14:05,249
knowledge regarding the JFK

1374
01:14:11,449 --> 01:14:07,769
assassination but it's funny in later

1375
01:14:14,870 --> 01:14:11,459
years thornleigh got on medication kind

1376
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:14,880
of pulled his life together so that you

1377
01:14:20,089 --> 01:14:17,489
know that at its worst you know there's

1378
01:14:23,029 --> 01:14:20,099
only a couple of years where he was

1379
01:14:25,399 --> 01:14:23,039
really deep into that funk of being a

1380
01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:25,409
paranoid schizophrenic came out of that

1381
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:27,329
in later years we talked about he worked

1382
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:30,570
with ron bond aluminum present his books

1383
01:14:34,489 --> 01:14:32,130
were published and i interviewed a lot

1384
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:34,499
of people who knew Thornleigh's later

1385
01:14:40,129 --> 01:14:36,530
years he lived in Little Five Points

1386
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:40,139
Atlantic kind of a bohemian hippie area

1387
01:14:45,679 --> 01:14:43,170
there mm-hmm and in durably a lot of

1388
01:14:47,750 --> 01:14:45,689
people shared the same stories

1389
01:14:51,709 --> 01:14:47,760
they'd be out say at a party at a

1390
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:51,719
restaurant with Thornleigh and thorne

1391
01:14:55,699 --> 01:14:53,489
Kerry Thornleigh would leave after a

1392
01:14:58,219 --> 01:14:55,709
while and other people would show up

1393
01:14:59,919 --> 01:14:58,229
asking questions about Kerry Thornleigh

1394
01:15:03,400 --> 01:14:59,929
willing to buy people drinks and

1395
01:15:06,650 --> 01:15:03,410
inevitably the conversation

1396
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:06,660
get into the JFK assassination this

1397
01:15:11,930 --> 01:15:09,930
happened or the let's do several people

1398
01:15:14,420 --> 01:15:11,940
I know so there's always that specter of

1399
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:14,430
men and black kind of following Carey

1400
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:16,050
Thornleigh around throughout his whole

1401
01:15:23,420 --> 01:15:20,280
life now Carrie Thornleigh is he's still

1402
01:15:26,350 --> 01:15:23,430
with us now he died he was one of the

1403
01:15:30,620 --> 01:15:26,360
big three that died in the late 90s

1404
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:30,630
along with Jim Keith formerly was part

1405
01:15:39,740 --> 01:15:33,840
of that bunch at illuminate the press so

1406
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:39,750
in a dress warmly died in 98 round on

1407
01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:43,050
Thanksgiving and he claimed it was a

1408
01:15:48,530 --> 01:15:45,540
rare kidney disease that he died of and

1409
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:48,540
he suspected up until the end that it

1410
01:15:54,340 --> 01:15:51,570
was all related to the conspiracy that

1411
01:15:57,770 --> 01:15:54,350
he'd been somehow poisoned or something

1412
01:16:01,700 --> 01:15:57,780
well I mean normally people do not

1413
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:01,710
recover from paranoid schizophrenia so

1414
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:05,490
if he is genuinely schizophrenic on his

1415
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:07,770
own then he wouldn't have gotten better

1416
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:11,090
but if it was somehow induced then it's

1417
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:13,920
you know it's more credible that he

1418
01:16:19,550 --> 01:16:16,890
would be able to somehow come out of it

1419
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:19,560
at some later time so it sort of lends

1420
01:16:22,940 --> 01:16:21,450
itself to the fact that it there was

1421
01:16:25,310 --> 01:16:22,950
some sort of intervention or

1422
01:16:27,620 --> 01:16:25,320
interference there mmhmm yeah perhaps

1423
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:27,630
one thing about thorn he was a real

1424
01:16:34,190 --> 01:16:30,510
unique in individual as you might have

1425
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:34,200
gathered and one of his friends told me

1426
01:16:41,030 --> 01:16:37,250
that was the interesting thing about

1427
01:16:43,010 --> 01:16:41,040
Thornleigh he was the only paranoid that

1428
01:16:44,890 --> 01:16:43,020
she knew and this is my friend Lewis

1429
01:16:47,770 --> 01:16:44,900
Lacey told me he was friends with

1430
01:16:50,540 --> 01:16:47,780
Thornleigh she said he was the only

1431
01:16:53,060 --> 01:16:50,550
paranoid schizophrenic she ever knew

1432
01:16:56,570 --> 01:16:53,070
that was able to retain a sense of humor

1433
01:17:00,020 --> 01:16:56,580
even during that period where he went

1434
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:00,030
into this deep schizophrenic fog and you

1435
01:17:08,180 --> 01:17:04,530
know medication can do can help do

1436
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:08,190
wonders as well so well that's true too

1437
01:17:12,770 --> 01:17:10,260
if he got better because of medication

1438
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:12,780
then that's one thing if he just you

1439
01:17:19,609 --> 01:17:15,449
know came out of it somehow that

1440
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:19,619
something as far as far as I've got this

1441
01:17:25,729 --> 01:17:21,690
from different sources that yeah he was

1442
01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:25,739
on did get on medication at some point

1443
01:17:31,759 --> 01:17:29,369
and that help smooth over now you

1444
01:17:34,370 --> 01:17:31,769
mentioned Louise Lacey she was part of

1445
01:17:37,729 --> 01:17:34,380
this movement right yeah do you know

1446
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:37,739
Lewis no I don't I just get was reading

1447
01:17:43,219 --> 01:17:40,650
about her eat that she was part of that

1448
01:17:46,189 --> 01:17:43,229
group and you say she's a friend of

1449
01:17:49,850 --> 01:17:46,199
yours mm-hmm yep well sure I gotta I

1450
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:49,860
gotta ask are you a discordian yes I am

1451
01:17:56,540 --> 01:17:53,760
oh I had a funny feeling about that how

1452
01:17:58,699 --> 01:17:56,550
could how could I not be with having had

1453
01:18:01,580 --> 01:17:58,709
the discordian archives passed on to me

1454
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:01,590
and my discordian name is the wrong

1455
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:03,690
Reverend Houdini Kundalini of the Church

1456
01:18:12,410 --> 01:18:08,880
of unwavering indifference I like that

1457
01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:12,420
oh that's funny uh did you when did you

1458
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:16,800
cross over uh was well you know what

1459
01:18:21,169 --> 01:18:19,170
I've first got into this stuff I was

1460
01:18:24,379 --> 01:18:21,179
interested in cary Thornleigh you know

1461
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:24,389
not so much discordian ism right but

1462
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:26,690
just Thornleigh's crazy life and that

1463
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:29,280
led to the first book the prankster in

1464
01:18:35,390 --> 01:18:32,880
the conspiracy it was like 2003 and so i

1465
01:18:37,609 --> 01:18:35,400
got involved with you know interviewing

1466
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:37,619
some of these old-school discordian ism

1467
01:18:44,379 --> 01:18:40,860
and I just grew to appreciate over time

1468
01:18:47,330 --> 01:18:44,389
and eventually I made that bold leap and

1469
01:18:49,549 --> 01:18:47,340
it came up open the Discordians society

1470
01:18:51,859 --> 01:18:49,559
which anybody can be a hoe analed

1471
01:18:54,620 --> 01:18:51,869
sporting society all you have to do is

1472
01:18:58,699 --> 01:18:54,630
say that you are yeah they have female

1473
01:19:03,290 --> 01:18:58,709
popes well of course Louisa is a pope

1474
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:03,300
and her discordian name is lady l f a b

1475
01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:06,780
and there's a interesting story behind

1476
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:12,209
that name lewis worked the you know all

1477
01:19:17,899 --> 01:19:14,369
of the Discordians were writers and

1478
01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:17,909
artists and whatnot and she i read i

1479
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:21,110
read the meaning of that name it was if

1480
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:23,520
something that Eldridge Cleaver had said

1481
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:26,010
it I guess they were friends yeah they

1482
01:19:33,620 --> 01:19:29,250
both work for ramparts magazine in fact

1483
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:33,630
Louise was the research director for the

1484
01:19:39,020 --> 01:19:35,570
research on the Kennedy assassination

1485
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:39,030
ramparts is one of the first magazines

1486
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:42,449
to really tackle that subject you know

1487
01:19:50,180 --> 01:19:46,260
this was in the mid-60s before a lot of

1488
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:50,190
the popular press even willing to

1489
01:19:53,629 --> 01:19:51,330
entertain theories there was a

1490
01:19:55,970 --> 01:19:53,639
conspiracy anyway she was working there

1491
01:19:58,100 --> 01:19:55,980
ramparts and she showed up one day in

1492
01:20:02,419 --> 01:19:58,110
Eldridge Cleaver who also worked at

1493
01:20:03,979 --> 01:20:02,429
grand parts during this period was there

1494
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:03,989
in the office with some other guy and

1495
01:20:10,220 --> 01:20:06,210
the other guy said to cleaver hey here

1496
01:20:13,189 --> 01:20:10,230
comes that in Arcis and

1497
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:13,199
cleaver said hey man she's my friend

1498
01:20:20,899 --> 01:20:15,290
she's a good lady she taught me how to

1499
01:20:26,570 --> 01:20:20,909
eat artichokes and so anyway that's how

1500
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:26,580
the name came lady ill fa fa be I guess

1501
01:20:34,820 --> 01:20:28,980
we can bleep that out later oh I'm sorry

1502
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:34,830
no it's okay I'm just joking annoyed

1503
01:20:39,939 --> 01:20:36,570
anyway I mean I'm the one that drew it

1504
01:20:46,899 --> 01:20:39,949
out of you so don't worry about it yes

1505
01:20:51,770 --> 01:20:46,909
but so now so if you are a I guess a

1506
01:20:56,209 --> 01:20:51,780
follower or a proponent of discordian

1507
01:20:59,000 --> 01:20:56,219
ism how does that apply in your everyday

1508
01:21:02,419 --> 01:20:59,010
life I mean are there certain principles

1509
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:02,429
that are set out for people to live

1510
01:21:09,649 --> 01:21:06,290
across the room there's no rules at all

1511
01:21:14,359 --> 01:21:09,659
and I'm a famous discordian saying is we

1512
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:14,369
discord ians must stick apart aha I was

1513
01:21:19,459 --> 01:21:16,560
going to say because in a way it seems

1514
01:21:23,629 --> 01:21:19,469
like if there is some sort of philosophy

1515
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:23,639
and especially you know with the signing

1516
01:21:27,979 --> 01:21:25,530
of names and things like that maybe

1517
01:21:29,780 --> 01:21:27,989
there's no hierarchy but it seemed like

1518
01:21:32,419 --> 01:21:29,790
it was almost getting on the verge of

1519
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:32,429
organizing and I was thinking yeah oh I

1520
01:21:36,140 --> 01:21:34,050
smell trouble it

1521
01:21:38,270 --> 01:21:36,150
you know when things start organizing

1522
01:21:41,060 --> 01:21:38,280
that's when the trouble begins well

1523
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:41,070
especially if your organization or a

1524
01:21:47,510 --> 01:21:44,010
group based on chaos I would think an

1525
01:21:50,870 --> 01:21:47,520
organization would be sort of anti anti

1526
01:21:54,290 --> 01:21:50,880
anti yeah exactly well see that's what

1527
01:21:55,850 --> 01:21:54,300
in the early days great kill and carry

1528
01:21:57,950 --> 01:21:55,860
Thornleigh you know when they first

1529
01:22:02,270 --> 01:21:57,960
started it they were the only ones that

1530
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:02,280
could actually what he call make people

1531
01:22:08,660 --> 01:22:05,010
Pope's in the Discordians society but

1532
01:22:11,209 --> 01:22:08,670
like in 69 or so Greg Hill had the

1533
01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:11,219
revelation that that's a bunch of BS you

1534
01:22:17,839 --> 01:22:14,280
know anybody should be able to declare

1535
01:22:19,879 --> 01:22:17,849
them selves Pope's any time they want to

1536
01:22:23,209 --> 01:22:19,889
and that's when the Discordians society

1537
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:23,219
kind of changed its focus during that

1538
01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:25,050
period you note as far as an over

1539
01:22:31,069 --> 01:22:29,219
arching philosophy or doctrines or

1540
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:31,079
whatever there really isn't any I mean

1541
01:22:38,419 --> 01:22:35,489
my take on it is yeah we do live in a

1542
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:38,429
chaotic universe so why does that

1543
01:22:44,540 --> 01:22:41,010
necessarily have to be a bad thing you

1544
01:22:47,209 --> 01:22:44,550
know embrace the chaos kind of the go

1545
01:22:51,740 --> 01:22:47,219
with the flow and let it lead you were

1546
01:22:55,310 --> 01:22:51,750
at me is it all based on chaos or is it

1547
01:22:58,129 --> 01:22:55,320
sort of order and disorder I'm yeah it's

1548
01:23:00,350 --> 01:22:58,139
used it seems like sort of almost a you

1549
01:23:03,740 --> 01:23:00,360
know again sort of there's some Gnostic

1550
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:03,750
sort of title underpinnings there with

1551
01:23:09,740 --> 01:23:06,000
the sort of the dark and the light and

1552
01:23:11,780 --> 01:23:09,750
the opposites and order and chaos and

1553
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:11,790
you know yeah it's very observant other

1554
01:23:16,729 --> 01:23:14,250
people have pointed that out to me that

1555
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:16,739
there's some similarities with

1556
01:23:21,799 --> 01:23:19,290
Gnosticism mm-hmm and I'm not that

1557
01:23:24,140 --> 01:23:21,809
familiar with the Gnosticism but the and

1558
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:24,150
if you look at the symbol of discordian

1559
01:23:33,350 --> 01:23:27,090
ism it's called the sacred cow sacred

1560
01:23:37,939 --> 01:23:33,360
cow or you know spell chaos k ka l CH a

1561
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:37,949
of the sacred cow sigma h KS and so

1562
01:23:43,580 --> 01:23:41,090
that's a symbol of discordian ism which

1563
01:23:46,649 --> 01:23:43,590
allegedly was revealed to Thornleigh in

1564
01:23:49,509 --> 01:23:46,659
him that bowling alley and

1565
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:49,519
back back way back when when they had a

1566
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:51,530
vision and all the bowlers and the

1567
01:23:56,500 --> 01:23:54,170
bowling alley frozen a chimpanzee

1568
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,510
appeared to them holding the sacred cow

1569
01:24:00,850 --> 01:23:58,880
and if you look at that symbol noon find

1570
01:24:03,219 --> 01:24:00,860
it anywhere on the internet it's like

1571
01:24:05,589 --> 01:24:03,229
the yin and yang yeah I'm looking at it

1572
01:24:07,870 --> 01:24:05,599
yeah dude it's me but it's they call it

1573
01:24:12,819 --> 01:24:07,880
the Hajin podge on one side you have the

1574
01:24:18,250 --> 01:24:12,829
Pentagon yep which basically depicts

1575
01:24:20,700 --> 01:24:18,260
what they called an aristocrat on the

1576
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:20,710
other side is the Golden Apple which

1577
01:24:29,770 --> 01:24:27,050
relates the story of Eros and you know

1578
01:24:32,319 --> 01:24:29,780
the let's call the story well there's a

1579
01:24:35,649 --> 01:24:32,329
whole story behind that but the Golden

1580
01:24:37,870 --> 01:24:35,659
Apple is another form of chaos so

1581
01:24:40,989 --> 01:24:37,880
there's the two conflicting forms of

1582
01:24:43,899 --> 01:24:40,999
chaos what is the more creative and the

1583
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:43,909
other is the more controlling and so

1584
01:24:51,549 --> 01:24:46,610
that's kind of the hodge podge those two

1585
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:51,559
forces counterbalancing each other mmm

1586
01:24:59,709 --> 01:24:55,610
interesting crazy but yeah there is

1587
01:25:02,319 --> 01:24:59,719
definitely some Gnostic elements in the

1588
01:25:08,140 --> 01:25:02,329
whole idea of the feminine to is sort of

1589
01:25:10,589 --> 01:25:08,150
a bit of a gnostic idea yeah that's

1590
01:25:13,359 --> 01:25:10,599
that's interesting you brought that up

1591
01:25:17,410 --> 01:25:13,369
occasionally we'll have guest guest post

1592
01:25:19,330 --> 01:25:17,420
at the website the story discordia which

1593
01:25:24,250 --> 01:25:19,340
deals with all these discordian archives

1594
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:24,260
and the fellow by the name of shuksan

1595
01:25:30,899 --> 01:25:28,610
forgetting his name now robert is what

1596
01:25:35,109 --> 01:25:30,909
happens when you get older but anyway he

1597
01:25:37,450 --> 01:25:35,119
wrote a whole host devoted to the theme

1598
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:37,460
of the similarities between the score d

1599
01:25:44,979 --> 01:25:42,170
anism and Gnosticism hmm yeah a few

1600
01:25:47,700 --> 01:25:44,989
weeks ago we had on Timothy Wiley

1601
01:25:51,959 --> 01:25:47,710
talking about the processed church and

1602
01:25:55,569 --> 01:25:51,969
there were some I noticed some the same

1603
01:25:58,660 --> 01:25:55,579
ideas you know the the opposites the

1604
01:25:59,260 --> 01:25:58,670
mirrors in the can't help you wonder if

1605
01:26:02,200 --> 01:25:59,270
you ever

1606
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:02,210
darkness and the light right exactly so

1607
01:26:08,440 --> 01:26:05,810
I think there's truth now is there a

1608
01:26:13,090 --> 01:26:08,450
process church connection to discordian

1609
01:26:15,820 --> 01:26:13,100
ISM was there uh if you look deeply

1610
01:26:19,860 --> 01:26:15,830
enough everything's connected there's a

1611
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:22,720
there's some very tenuous connections

1612
01:26:29,770 --> 01:26:26,690
that are so obscured to even go into it

1613
01:26:31,390 --> 01:26:29,780
here would be a five minutes story that

1614
01:26:33,550 --> 01:26:31,400
leave you scratching your head you know

1615
01:26:34,750 --> 01:26:33,560
but yeah since we only have four and a

1616
01:26:37,530 --> 01:26:34,760
half minute or three and a half minutes

1617
01:26:40,090 --> 01:26:37,540
left I guess we can't do that one yeah

1618
01:26:42,940 --> 01:26:40,100
they're yeah there are sooo Bay

1619
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:42,950
connections an interesting one with

1620
01:26:48,700 --> 01:26:44,930
Charles Manson and Carrie Thornleigh of

1621
01:26:50,710 --> 01:26:48,710
all people Carrie Carrie Thornleigh you

1622
01:26:52,510 --> 01:26:50,720
know during later years correspondent

1623
01:26:57,430 --> 01:26:52,520
was pin pal with different people in

1624
01:27:00,520 --> 01:26:57,440
prison and he was corresponding with one

1625
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:00,530
fellow who knew Charles Manson and so

1626
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:02,570
son he'll carry Thornleigh got on

1627
01:27:09,550 --> 01:27:07,610
Charles Manson's radar and sent Carrie

1628
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:09,560
Thornleigh a letter you know so they

1629
01:27:17,050 --> 01:27:13,840
correspond it a little bit and actually

1630
01:27:19,450 --> 01:27:17,060
Charles Manson sent Carrie Thornleigh a

1631
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:19,460
Christmas card of all things on a

1632
01:27:24,670 --> 01:27:21,610
postcard it's reproduced in the book

1633
01:27:29,410 --> 01:27:24,680
historia discordian Thornleigh later

1634
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:29,420
used this postcard as like a raffle to

1635
01:27:38,830 --> 01:27:33,290
raise money to help a young lady who was

1636
01:27:41,650 --> 01:27:38,840
raped and kidnapped taken to California

1637
01:27:44,410 --> 01:27:41,660
so he was trying to get her back in back

1638
01:27:47,140 --> 01:27:44,420
in Atlanta during this period I think

1639
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:47,150
she was locked up in a psych ward some

1640
01:27:54,970 --> 01:27:50,480
more Carol California so anyway normally

1641
01:27:56,740 --> 01:27:54,980
was able to raffle off that Charles

1642
01:27:58,439 --> 01:27:56,750
Woodson postcard and get his friends

1643
01:28:02,800 --> 01:27:58,449
young lady out of

1644
01:28:05,589 --> 01:28:02,810
psychiatric facility California reunited

1645
01:28:09,129 --> 01:28:05,599
with her parents during atlanta oh my

1646
01:28:11,950 --> 01:28:09,139
god how much did he get for it i have no

1647
01:28:17,580 --> 01:28:11,960
idea i know that i know in a pretty

1648
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:17,590
penny huh no it was just you know he

1649
01:28:22,300 --> 01:28:20,239
advertised it there and little five

1650
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:22,310
points maybe for a couple weeks you know

1651
01:28:29,020 --> 01:28:26,330
and wow maybe you know a dollar a pop

1652
01:28:31,390 --> 01:28:29,030
and got a few hundred dollars and you

1653
01:28:35,890 --> 01:28:31,400
know enough money to get this friend

1654
01:28:38,140 --> 01:28:35,900
back to Atlanta yeah yeah I guess so is

1655
01:28:41,470 --> 01:28:38,150
the plane tickets probably weren't that

1656
01:28:44,050 --> 01:28:41,480
much than it either um you know before

1657
01:28:47,830 --> 01:28:44,060
we go which is going to be just any

1658
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:47,840
second I wanted to let people know how

1659
01:28:53,550 --> 01:28:49,489
they can get your books you can go to

1660
01:28:57,939 --> 01:28:53,560
Adam go rightly dot-com or historia

1661
01:29:00,609 --> 01:28:57,949
discordia dot-com for his latest book

1662
01:29:03,490 --> 01:29:00,619
but you see all of his books on his

1663
01:29:05,140 --> 01:29:03,500
website and there's some really

1664
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:05,150
interesting stuff there's so many things

1665
01:29:09,459 --> 01:29:07,010
I wanted to get into but we didn't have

1666
01:29:11,740 --> 01:29:09,469
time Catcher in the Rye to say the least

1667
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:11,750
I got to talk to you about catcher in

1668
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:14,960
the rye yeah definitely hey I'll

1669
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:16,730
hopefully you'll come back on and

1670
01:29:21,879 --> 01:29:20,690
drinking this and we can talk about so

1671
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:21,889
many other things that you've written

1672
01:29:26,580 --> 01:29:24,290
about it thank you so much Adam go

1673
01:29:29,370 --> 01:29:26,590
rightly for being our guest tonight and

1674
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:29,380
hope talk to you again very very soon